Driver's License Number on Zapplication

Barry Bernstein February 22, 2010 at 7:32pm

I do security work on my friends computers all the time and am aware of what can happen to someone who gives out a couple of pieces of information. You should never give out your license plate #, your license #, credit card info, and especially your social security information unless you know it is extremely secure. Amazon.com and other online vendors have great encryption because the survival of their businesses rely on it. An art fair application? I'm not so sure. You should never fill out a job application and add this info. You only supply that info when you get the job. They do need your SS number for tax purposes.

One thing I do sometimes is that I reverse two numbers. For instance, if my ID is xxxx4512xxx, I would put xxxx4152xxx. Most of the time, the info isn't even necessary and isn't checked. It's just on the form. If you are in a situation where they actual verify your info, they probably are security conscience.

This discussion brings up something I have been wondering. How secure is Zapplication and JAS? It's a fair question, since they do have our personal information. I'm not saying those web sites have security holes that could be exploited, but, we should be able to ask how secure they actual are? On the most secure sites, what we type in gets encrypted in a 256 bit code that is hard to crack. In fact, on the most secure sites, there are 2 levels of encryption. Further, when you log on, there is a random 256 bit code that is generated that only exists for you when you log on, and then gets wiped when you log off. Each time you log on, you get a different code. This keeps hackers and key loggers from stealing your password and accessing your info. The most secure sites, also, change that code at a designated interval, say every 15 minutes. It's the reason why someone cannot log on to your online bank account. It isn't necessary to understand this. Just understand that when you type in your password, you see your password but the site sees a 256 encrypted code. Your IP address is assigned another one. And, those questions like, "Where were you born?" etc. creates another one. That is why they are there.

I, for one, would like to know how secure Zapp and JAS are.

Jacqueline Webster February 22, 2010 at 2:07pm

The DL is for proving you're a Colorado resident, but I can see if they aren't actually confirming it's your number or at least comparing to the Number you gave them at check-in it would be a pretty moot point. But like I said, they want what they want and based on the promoter's response I didn't feel like it was totally out of line.

There's a show in Estes Park (CO) that wants an affidavit of citizenship in order to participate in the festival. My guess is that it has something to do with a misinterpretation of Colorado HB 1023. It's a piece of state legislation that requires individuals to prove US citizenship or lawful presence in the US to be the beneficiaries of state or federal funds either directly or indirectly. Being employed by a local government agency that oversees federal training grants I'm very familiar with HB 1023, and the form not only requires you to disclose your DL number, but also requires your SSN. The agency that I work with also requires a photocopy of you DL and SS card. I have a HUGE problem going that far to get into a show. There are all kinds of data security issues, plus the issue of background checks for the arts organization staff and volunteers. And my personal feeling is that I don't really even want to inquire about the policy - I just feel that asking me for citizenship is a bit out of line.

Purse Stuff - Paula said:

Jackie - More???? What more could they possibly want?

Did they tell you what the purpose was? Why? Why they needed your DL?

I can't help but wonder what they would do if someone does not have a Driver's License :-)

Purse Stuff - Paula

Marguerite McGrath February 21, 2010 at 11:03pm

I would have to guess that if they weren't driving to the show, maybe they were using pack mules to bring their booth in and that would probably get them a pass, just for the novelty of it. :-)

Purse Stuff - Paula said:

Jackie - More???? What more could they possibly want?

Did they tell you what the purpose was? Why? Why they needed your DL?

I can't help but wonder what they would do if someone does not have a Driver's License :-)

Purse Stuff - Paula

Jacqueline Webster February 21, 2010 at 9:35pm

Hi, Paula

I sent the promoter an email and he responded almost immediately, which was very nice. He said that the DL number never leaves the Zapp system, not even as a printout. He responded in a an email, so I have it in writing. I have applied to the show and will have to show my DL at check-in if I'm chosen to exhibit. But they're apparently not comparing it to anything when that happens. I guess they want what they want. There are a couple of shows that I'm skipping because they want even more, but I'm pretty satisfied that my DL is relatively safe with this promoter.

Thanks for checking in!

Jackie

Purse Stuff - Paula said:

Jackie,
What did the promoter say about the DL requirement?Did you decide to apply for the show?

Purse Stuff - Paula

Robin Chard February 21, 2010 at 6:45pm

A Autumn show I had last year in the NC mountians I kept loosing my connection. I have used my settup for a year (wireless) and had to take and store 7 transactions. I haven't done this much and didn't take phone numbers. two came back. ouch! next time I will! And I didn't know about entering the number again. I wish I did.

Linnea Lahlum February 21, 2010 at 12:18am

I have had that too, the customer that is temporarily over the limit. I know I’m getting more debit cards, though I can’t tell from the receipt whether it is. Despite the fees they have to pay for overdrafts, I think many people routinely run over. Sometimes it does take me a few tries to get “MY” piece of their account that is owed. So far it hasn’t happened in these cases, but having had the chargeback experience mentioned above, in the back of my mind is the fear that the charge being processed much later than the sale will be used by someone to contest it. Though I would have my arguments ready if they did!

Chris Hoyt said:

Linnea,
I too have a Nurit. And up here there isn't always a signal either. So yes, I will put the terminal in store and foward mode and upload later. But I also get a printout every time I put into that mode.

"Merchant accepts all risk for declined or unauthorized use of cards".

That means if I get a bad card I just gave away my merchandise. And sometimes I do get a decline at the hotel. So what do I do? I wait a week and then put it through again. 99% of the time it is accepted. Either the customer was just over their limit or the payment was late. I can probably count on one hand the number of cards I haven't been able to collect in this way since I started using a terminal in 1993. An old Verifone Tranz 420 with a bag phone. That setup took up more room than my cash register.

Chris Hoyt February 12, 2010 at 7:49am

Linnea,
I too have a Nurit. And up here there isn't always a signal either. So yes, I will put the terminal in store and foward mode and upload later. But I also get a printout every time I put into that mode.

"Merchant accepts all risk for declined or unauthorized use of cards".

That means if I get a bad card I just gave away my merchandise. And sometimes I do get a decline at the hotel. So what do I do? I wait a week and then put it through again. 99% of the time it is accepted. Either the customer was just over their limit or the payment was late. I can probably count on one hand the number of cards I haven't been able to collect in this way since I started using a terminal in 1993. An old Verifone Tranz 420 with a bag phone. That setup took up more room than my cash register.

Linnea Lahlum February 11, 2010 at 8:53pm

I have a wireless Nurit terminal (not cell phone) but there are times when I can’t get a signal. Sometimes I’m in a remote area, sometimes the signal is blocked by a hill. Sometimes just because it feels like it. This happens at a few shows a year. I have store and forward, so I can send it later, but that doesn’t help me on the spot to get an approval. When I have to do this, I can print out an “offline” receipt, but I still ask for a phone number. Maybe I’ve been lucky…no one has questioned me on this. I have explained a few times that when it isn’t approved on the spot I need to have some recourse. Customers have been very understanding.

I have used the phone number a few times…not from being given a fraudulent card, but because someone was over their limit. They all worked out.

I suppose if someone wants to be a stinker they will. …meaning they are looking for a chance to get something for nothing. When I used the knucklebuster all the time (before I had a battery system, I took them home or back to the hotel to process) that did happen once. Someone started a chargeback because the charge was processed the next day.

I still prefer to have the approval on the spot, especially at a busy show…where a charge-happy customer may be over their limit quickly. But having a wireless system may not cover all situations. (I’m sure everybody has seen artists holding their machines up into the air?)

Chris Hoyt said:

Ben,
Just be aware that many states are making it a crime to demand personal information when accepting a credit card unless the item is to be shipped. Many states have instituted fines. Those pesky privacy laws, you know.

And why aren't you just getting the card authorized at the time of the sale? Just key in the processor's 800 number on speed dial on your cell if you don't have a terminal.

And with the new cards coming out with no raised numbers, just printed on the face, even knucklebusters will become obsolete in time.

As I have stated before, my phone number is none of anybody's business. If you demand a phone number, I'll just give out a false one, and you'll never know. And if somebody is going to give you a bad card on purpose, do you really think they're going to give you a real phone number? Get the card authorized at the time of the sale to avoid any problems later.

And I have never had a mailing list in over 30 years of doing shows.

Chris Hoyt February 11, 2010 at 9:31am

Ben,
Just be aware that many states are making it a crime to demand personal information when accepting a credit card unless the item is to be shipped. Many states have instituted fines. Those pesky privacy laws, you know.

And why aren't you just getting the card authorized at the time of the sale? Just key in the processor's 800 number on speed dial on your cell if you don't have a terminal.

And with the new cards coming out with no raised numbers, just printed on the face, even knucklebusters will become obsolete in time.

As I have stated before, my phone number is none of anybody's business. If you demand a phone number, I'll just give out a false one, and you'll never know. And if somebody is going to give you a bad card on purpose, do you really think they're going to give you a real phone number? Get the card authorized at the time of the sale to avoid any problems later.

And I have never had a mailing list in over 30 years of doing shows.

Dave Hinde February 9, 2010 at 3:10pm

There are federal laws about what PII (personal information) can be collected, and how it has to be handled. I'm not sure if DL number is on the list, but it should be. If it is, I think that the form requesting it must also state how that number is being used, and what is being done to protect the information. Google "PII" and you will find lot's of regulations and information.

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Driver's License Number on Zapplication

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