I was up on Artfestival.com & noted that the promoter is Howard Alan. I noted that that name came up in the discussion about raising booth fees. It was negative. Is he not a good promoter? Have people had issues with the running of the shows. I note that the booth fees are quite high - they make me gulp.
Should I not consider doing any of the shows on Artfestival.com?
Debbie
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From a vendor point of view, those were the artists that couldn't get into Howard's show or chose not to apply to it. Ellsworth eventually threw out the promoter also and the show dissolved. But it had more focus on the food and music anyway. I use the word vendor because Ed wasn't particular about who he let in.
About the booth fee. When the old promoter was thrown out almost ten years ago, the booth fee had already gone up to around $400 plus $100 corner premium, $50 if you wanted the same space as the previous year and $25 if you didn't set up the night before. There were greasy food booths in the center of the show and artists on side streets and in the bank parking lot that didn't get full traffic flow. Also, I remember one year the food vendors screwed up a fire hydrant which broke and flooded a few booths on a side street and the promoter did absolutely nothing about it. Then there was the year before I started doing the show when all the photographers were put together on a side street. They all complained and non were ever allowed back in again.
There's a link on this page to a wmv (video) clip from the TV news in 2002 when the thrown out promoter started another show in Shadyside the same weekend, keeping the same name and tricking artists from all over the country to apply. The clip shows artists complaining about no traffic and the promoter saying it's just first day jitters. http://www.bermangraphics.com/artshows/pittsburgh.htm
No matter how much artists complain about Howard Alan and the Shadyside show, it's light years better than it was before Howard.
to cap off this discussion, i will add my two cents for you Deb! i think that with the economy, determining show success and which ones to do is a totally hit or miss situation. we do the new york art expo every year, which is a very high cost show - always with success and at least a little profit. i convinced nick (based in ohio) to do shadyside last year because i am from pittsburgh, and it was not only our largest profit margin, but our highest on sales! however, we just did howard's coconut point show and it was our second to worst in sales. i realize it is different locations, but same show organizers. i think for the time being, going for a lower cost show and being prepared with the best looking booth and art is the best you can do to have the most positive feeling afterward. but what do i know!
in general, i realize at every show someone complains about parking, or set up, or time etc...no matter what the logistics. but just as the organizers have never experienced it from the artist side, the artists haven't experienced from the organizer side either. give them a break before griping about their mild inconveniences, and find a personal system for yourself that works best with their regulations. they are not only dealing with city and locale people pointing their fingers at them, but believe it or not doing what they think is best to keep artists organized!
and my question - our art is priced in the $700-$3000 range. our target is higher end residential and commercial (like lobbies, etc...) is either three rivers or shadyside, in your opinion, a better market for our art?
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Unlike many of you, I am a part-timer doing shows, as I have a full time day job (includes some traveling), so I am limited on the number & length of shows that I can do. I would love to do 3 Rivers, however, it would be difficult to take an entire week off from work to do it. Maybe in the future it will be something that I can consider. Will have to think about the Shadyside show.
thanks again, you guys always have a wealth of info to share.
Deb
Like I said, artists have mixed feeling about Howard. The old promoter closed the street for three days and was supposed to pay the merchant's association a flat fee each year. He never paid a cent. I don't agree with dropping Friday but do agree about the hours because Walnut Street tends to have an evening crowd that comes out for dinner.
My space was at the corner of S. Aiken and Walnut and I arranged electricity for the end half dozen booths, three on each side of the street. The street has logistics (very narrow) that force early setting up with no access to the booths by vehicle. But it was the same when "Ed" ran the show except no evening before setup. A lot of Howard's shows are in busy traffic locations where setup starts early the morning of the first day. That's one of the love hate situations. As a morning person I love the early setup so I don't loose any of the previous day before. In and out real quick.
One difference is Howard's enforcing of the parking but he runs a shuttle to an off site parking lot. I stopped doing the show about four years ago so I'm not sure of the shuttle. I do walk the show each time. Ed let the artists park wherever they wanted and there was no place for the public or residents.
Mr. Berman,
I did the old shows with the former promoter and know and understand the situation. When HA took over, it was much better. However, in the past few years his shows have become very expensive. They have eliminated the extra day, changed the dates of the show three times, increased the fees and make us stay open after 9:00 p.m. and do not give us electricity. They actually give us nothing but a literal 10 x 10 spot in which you have to set up at 5:00 a.m in the dark. Not a "artist friendly" environment.
Larry Berman said:
Whether or not Howard is a good promoter is based on artist's personal experience with him. I live in Pittsburgh and am responsible for getting the old promoter thrown out and introducing Howard to the merchants association.
I do feel his booth fees have gotten too high but Shadyside has a good reputation and a number of artists do well there.
If you have any specific questions about the show, feel free to give me a call.
Different shows with different audiences and different times of the year. The May show in Shadyside is new and should do well. Three Rivers dropped a week last year and showed improved sales for the artists, even with all the construction downtown with the tunnel to nowhere. If you get in the first week and don't have a show the second week, you can ask to stay but there's no guaranty of getting a space the following week. But if you do well it doesn't hurt to ask.
If given a choice, I'd recommend one of the six or five day periods over the weekend sections for Three Rivers, though I did speak to many artists last year that did well in the new location of the weekend sections and asked to come back for the second weekend after doing the first weekend.
For the first time this year and from now on, I'm sponsoring an award to be given out on both weeks at Three Rivers. The award is for $250 of my imaging services.
Do the Three Rivers Festival. Less Money, more days and a much better artist environment.
Diane Wright said:
I also live in Pittsburgh and decided that I could only afford to do either the Three Rivers Arts Festival or The Shadyside Arts Festival.. I applied to the Three Rivers Festival. For those of you who have done both, is one better thn the other. Of course, it's very possible I wouldn't get into either.
I also live in Pittsburgh and decided that I could only afford to do either the Three Rivers Arts Festival or The Shadyside Arts Festival.. I applied to the Three Rivers Festival. For those of you who have done both, is one better thn the other. Of course, it's very possible I wouldn't get into either.
Replies
From a vendor point of view, those were the artists that couldn't get into Howard's show or chose not to apply to it. Ellsworth eventually threw out the promoter also and the show dissolved. But it had more focus on the food and music anyway. I use the word vendor because Ed wasn't particular about who he let in.
Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100
There's a link on this page to a wmv (video) clip from the TV news in 2002 when the thrown out promoter started another show in Shadyside the same weekend, keeping the same name and tricking artists from all over the country to apply. The clip shows artists complaining about no traffic and the promoter saying it's just first day jitters.
http://www.bermangraphics.com/artshows/pittsburgh.htm
No matter how much artists complain about Howard Alan and the Shadyside show, it's light years better than it was before Howard.
Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100
in general, i realize at every show someone complains about parking, or set up, or time etc...no matter what the logistics. but just as the organizers have never experienced it from the artist side, the artists haven't experienced from the organizer side either. give them a break before griping about their mild inconveniences, and find a personal system for yourself that works best with their regulations. they are not only dealing with city and locale people pointing their fingers at them, but believe it or not doing what they think is best to keep artists organized!
and my question - our art is priced in the $700-$3000 range. our target is higher end residential and commercial (like lobbies, etc...) is either three rivers or shadyside, in your opinion, a better market for our art?
thanks!
thanks again, you guys always have a wealth of info to share.
Deb
Like I said, artists have mixed feeling about Howard. The old promoter closed the street for three days and was supposed to pay the merchant's association a flat fee each year. He never paid a cent. I don't agree with dropping Friday but do agree about the hours because Walnut Street tends to have an evening crowd that comes out for dinner.
My space was at the corner of S. Aiken and Walnut and I arranged electricity for the end half dozen booths, three on each side of the street. The street has logistics (very narrow) that force early setting up with no access to the booths by vehicle. But it was the same when "Ed" ran the show except no evening before setup. A lot of Howard's shows are in busy traffic locations where setup starts early the morning of the first day. That's one of the love hate situations. As a morning person I love the early setup so I don't loose any of the previous day before. In and out real quick.
One difference is Howard's enforcing of the parking but he runs a shuttle to an off site parking lot. I stopped doing the show about four years ago so I'm not sure of the shuttle. I do walk the show each time. Ed let the artists park wherever they wanted and there was no place for the public or residents.
Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100
I did the old shows with the former promoter and know and understand the situation. When HA took over, it was much better. However, in the past few years his shows have become very expensive. They have eliminated the extra day, changed the dates of the show three times, increased the fees and make us stay open after 9:00 p.m. and do not give us electricity. They actually give us nothing but a literal 10 x 10 spot in which you have to set up at 5:00 a.m in the dark. Not a "artist friendly" environment.
Larry Berman said:
If given a choice, I'd recommend one of the six or five day periods over the weekend sections for Three Rivers, though I did speak to many artists last year that did well in the new location of the weekend sections and asked to come back for the second weekend after doing the first weekend.
For the first time this year and from now on, I'm sponsoring an award to be given out on both weeks at Three Rivers. The award is for $250 of my imaging services.
Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100
Diane Wright said:
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