Hi, I'm looking for a generator to power items such as a fan and small items In my booth. Shows really don't allow gas generators. Does anyone have any ideas on something that would be battery powered that would last during the show for power if the show doesn't supply power?
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Robert, please post pics or more detail about the wiring up from start to finish. I would really like to know exactly what I'm doing when I do mine. This is new to me. Especially the wiring specs and component details. Thanks!!!!!!
No particular choice for the inverter. The 400 watt inverter was picked up at Fry's, and is a Chinese import called Rhino. That doesn't mean much as the label is a stick-on metal decal. Just make sure that you can get a direct hardwired connection to the battery and not through an accessory plug. BTW, as soon as I get this packaged up, I'll post a photo of what it looks like.
Gary Haynes said:
Thanks. Any brand on the inverter? Saw Marine batteries at Batteries+ at about $85.
I hear you on the storms. See my posting and photos on the blog about the Windsor, CO show.
I have one from Auto Zone; their house brand. Interstate Batteries has a similar one but about 20 bucks more, and Sam's Club had one for about $10 more. Check on the best deal by asking what the Amp hour rating is, not the CCA rating. CCA is for cranking a car in sub zero weather, likewise the Reserve Cranking Amperage isn't germane to what we're doing. Don't count on a whole lot of help from the guys at the counter to know what's going on, although Interstate and Batteries Plus would more than likely be able to help out as their entire business is batteries.
I don't have a show this weekend, so I'm fixing a wooden box with wheels for mine, and installing the 400 watt inverter, a power strip, and 2 3-outlet 12V accessory plugs. I was debating whether to find a auto radio/CD player and install that in the box also. I used to play music in my booth at one time, as a sort of complement to the work I had, and it made the show go nicely. I was at a show where we had a 100 year thunderstorm roll through and the boom box was in the gutter. The water got about 8 inches deep, and needless to say the boombox drowned :-(
I always thought the music added to the ambience of the booth when played at a level that you could hear it, but not cover over conversations. Gary Haynes said:
Sorry, I should have mentioned the exact wattage. They are CFLs comparable to 60 watt lights. I think the actual wattage is 11 watts per light, or 44 total for the 4 I had plugged in. I think I will return my powerstation and try another one. It seems like it's tripping a circuit breaker, not running out of power.
Robert M. Wallis said:
Dave, running four 60 watt lights is a pretty hefty task. When you mention 60 Watt lights, I'm going to assume that's the real power the bulbs pull, and not the equivalent light power. If they are 60 watt equivalent, then you should be able to go the weekend.
For the four 60 watt lamps, that's a total of 240 watts. Ignoring inverter losses (about 90% efficiency), that's going to be 20 amps pulled from the battery (I=P/V or 240/12=20 amps). My battery is about 135 amp/hour rating, and is just about as large as they come unless you spend really big bucks. Taking that 135 A/H capacity and dividing by 20 gets a little over 6 hours before the battery goes flatter than a flounder, and that's ideal situation. Follow my discussion further down for why you weren't geting better service out of your combination.
Dave Hinde said:
I picked up one at Lowes, hoping to run 4 60w CFL lights. It lasted about 3 hours. I found if I turned it off for 15-20 minutes, it would run about another hour. It actually seems like a circuit breaker is tripping, and that the unit shill has power (the indicator lights show it does). When I got home, it still had enough juice to jumpstart a lawn tractor battery.
Is anyone else using these units for lighting? I'm curious to see if mine is jut defective. It was in a "returned" state at Lowes.
Chris Hoyt said:
I purchases a Black & Decker portable power unit from Home Desperado for $99. It's a marine battery that must be recharged every day, but I have run a fan, my register and a radio/cd player with it for a day and recharged it overnight at the hotel.
Dave, running four 60 watt lights is a pretty hefty task. When you mention 60 Watt lights, I'm going to assume that's the real power the bulbs pull, and not the equivalent light power. If they are 60 watt equivalent, then you should be able to go the weekend.
For the four 60 watt lamps, that's a total of 240 watts. Ignoring inverter losses (about 90% efficiency), that's going to be 20 amps pulled from the battery (I=P/V or 240/12=20 amps). My battery is about 135 amp/hour rating, and is just about as large as they come unless you spend really big bucks. Taking that 135 A/H capacity and dividing by 20 gets a little over 6 hours before the battery goes flatter than a flounder, and that's ideal situation. Follow my discussion further down for why you weren't geting better service out of your combination.
Dave Hinde said:
I picked up one at Lowes, hoping to run 4 60w CFL lights. It lasted about 3 hours. I found if I turned it off for 15-20 minutes, it would run about another hour. It actually seems like a circuit breaker is tripping, and that the unit shill has power (the indicator lights show it does). When I got home, it still had enough juice to jumpstart a lawn tractor battery.
Is anyone else using these units for lighting? I'm curious to see if mine is jut defective. It was in a "returned" state at Lowes.
Chris Hoyt said:
I purchases a Black & Decker portable power unit from Home Desperado for $99. It's a marine battery that must be recharged every day, but I have run a fan, my register and a radio/cd player with it for a day and recharged it overnight at the hotel.
I use a larger marine battery for fans and lights at shows. The battery is a 135Amp/Hour battery, and weighs around 65 pounds. Makes a great tent weight when strapped to a back leg of the booth.
I typically use 5 and sometimes 6 12V clip on RV fans when it gets really hot and that works well to keep the booth cooled down. That's usually 3-4 in front and a couple in back for us.
I also use an inverter for AC power to keep the credit card machine and printer charged up. The service I've mentioned here will last through an entire weekend without recharging. I can run a 65 watt CFL lamp (300 watt equivalent) for about 12-15 hours before the inverter shuts down, and the fans keep going even after the inverter can't function..
Inverter shutdown is a problem in these applications. The battery connection must be direct hardwired between the battery and the inverter, and not through a cigarette lighter plug as that is a lossy connection. You can get a 300 Watt inverter for around $40 that does a good job, but running a floor fan pulls way too much power to be a good idea unless you're prepared to haul it back to the motel AND you have a charger that can do a fast charge on marine batteries (most don't, as you have to get a special one for that purpose). I use a Sears 10Amp charger with a deep discharge selection and if the battery is completely flattened, it can take 24 hours to fully charge.
Here is the reason inverters shut down early; they are designed for automotive battery service and have an automatic shutdown voltage (usually 10.5V) that is designed to protect the battery from deep discharge. It only takes a few times of that, and a car battery can be permanently damaged. A marine battery is of a different design and can handle that. The only way around this would be to find the voltage sensor section of the inverter and either modify it for a lower threshold shutdown or disable it completely. This is beyond the average tinkerer and not advisable. Check the individual inverter for the specs as not all are the same. In our applications, the lower the threshold, the better.
I've seen some artists at shows that are using two batteries in order to avoid taking a battery out at night to recharge. This lets then power up with more lights. As an aside, you can also find 12V marine lights that use the Edison (standard household sockets) base. Just make sure that the fixture has the 110V connector replaced with an automative accessory plug, or someone may get a rude surprise if they accidentally plug that marine light into the wall. It'll become a big flashbulb ;-)
Replies
Gary Haynes said:
I hear you on the storms. See my posting and photos on the blog about the Windsor, CO show.
Gary
I don't have a show this weekend, so I'm fixing a wooden box with wheels for mine, and installing the 400 watt inverter, a power strip, and 2 3-outlet 12V accessory plugs. I was debating whether to find a auto radio/CD player and install that in the box also. I used to play music in my booth at one time, as a sort of complement to the work I had, and it made the show go nicely. I was at a show where we had a 100 year thunderstorm roll through and the boom box was in the gutter. The water got about 8 inches deep, and needless to say the boombox drowned :-(
I always thought the music added to the ambience of the booth when played at a level that you could hear it, but not cover over conversations. Gary Haynes said:
Any particular brand on the marine battery?
Gary
Robert M. Wallis said:
For the four 60 watt lamps, that's a total of 240 watts. Ignoring inverter losses (about 90% efficiency), that's going to be 20 amps pulled from the battery (I=P/V or 240/12=20 amps). My battery is about 135 amp/hour rating, and is just about as large as they come unless you spend really big bucks. Taking that 135 A/H capacity and dividing by 20 gets a little over 6 hours before the battery goes flatter than a flounder, and that's ideal situation. Follow my discussion further down for why you weren't geting better service out of your combination.
Dave Hinde said:
I typically use 5 and sometimes 6 12V clip on RV fans when it gets really hot and that works well to keep the booth cooled down. That's usually 3-4 in front and a couple in back for us.
I also use an inverter for AC power to keep the credit card machine and printer charged up. The service I've mentioned here will last through an entire weekend without recharging. I can run a 65 watt CFL lamp (300 watt equivalent) for about 12-15 hours before the inverter shuts down, and the fans keep going even after the inverter can't function..
Inverter shutdown is a problem in these applications. The battery connection must be direct hardwired between the battery and the inverter, and not through a cigarette lighter plug as that is a lossy connection. You can get a 300 Watt inverter for around $40 that does a good job, but running a floor fan pulls way too much power to be a good idea unless you're prepared to haul it back to the motel AND you have a charger that can do a fast charge on marine batteries (most don't, as you have to get a special one for that purpose). I use a Sears 10Amp charger with a deep discharge selection and if the battery is completely flattened, it can take 24 hours to fully charge.
Here is the reason inverters shut down early; they are designed for automotive battery service and have an automatic shutdown voltage (usually 10.5V) that is designed to protect the battery from deep discharge. It only takes a few times of that, and a car battery can be permanently damaged. A marine battery is of a different design and can handle that. The only way around this would be to find the voltage sensor section of the inverter and either modify it for a lower threshold shutdown or disable it completely. This is beyond the average tinkerer and not advisable. Check the individual inverter for the specs as not all are the same. In our applications, the lower the threshold, the better.
I've seen some artists at shows that are using two batteries in order to avoid taking a battery out at night to recharge. This lets then power up with more lights. As an aside, you can also find 12V marine lights that use the Edison (standard household sockets) base. Just make sure that the fixture has the 110V connector replaced with an automative accessory plug, or someone may get a rude surprise if they accidentally plug that marine light into the wall. It'll become a big flashbulb ;-)
Robert Chapman said:
Read this post by me in a previous thread.
http://www.artfairinsiders.com/forum/topics/battery-power?commentId...
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