Hello there,
this is the first time that I am trying to look at the shows I have done to see which ones were the most profitable and if I should do them again.
I did about 24 shows (I just counted them for the first time, I had no idea that I did so many!!) which is the most that I have ever done.
Is there a standard calculation that I should use?
Thanks so much!
Denise
You need to be a member of Art Fair Insiders to add comments!
Having to make a living at it definitely makes a difference. I can’t justify the time spent away from my family, money spent, and all the hard work for a hobby. What I make is at least half the family income. Some years more; some years most (my spouse is an engineer, they get laid off a lot). I have 2 kids in college and a boatload of medical bills that could sink the ship if I didn’t keep paddling. But I’ve considered all my other options and this is still the best one. Got my MFA in 2006 but no one is hiring.
Not that I don’t have a good time at it, most of the time (only bad/dangerous weather makes me anxious). I enjoy the human interaction too. It’s like fuel to recharge me.
It’s just that I enjoy everything so much more when I make money.
Dave Hinde said:
I have a much simpler system. I only go back to the shows that I enjoyed doing! So far this isn't a full time business for me, but it will be when I retire from the 9 to 5 world in a few years. Maybe then I'll put profit ahead of enjoyment, but not totally. I like sharing my work (Nature Photos) with others, and the profit is a nice extra.
Seriously, my goal is usually to make expenses early on the first day, then just sit back and enjoy the rest of the weekend. I only lost money at one show in the last 2 years, and I'm doing that show again in 2010. It's the Chincoteague Island Decoy and Wildlife Art Show, Easter Weekend. I enjoyed the show, but if I lose money again, I may not do it in 2011!
I have a much simpler system. I only go back to the shows that I enjoyed doing! So far this isn't a full time business for me, but it will be when I retire from the 9 to 5 world in a few years. Maybe then I'll put profit ahead of enjoyment, but not totally. I like sharing my work (Nature Photos) with others, and the profit is a nice extra.
Seriously, my goal is usually to make expenses early on the first day, then just sit back and enjoy the rest of the weekend. I only lost money at one show in the last 2 years, and I'm doing that show again in 2010. It's the Chincoteague Island Decoy and Wildlife Art Show, Easter Weekend. I enjoyed the show, but if I lose money again, I may not do it in 2011!
"...Is there a standard calculation that I should use?..."
No.
Everybody does this for different reasons. First and foremost, I do this because I make my entire income from shows. So my situation is different than many others. But I'll tell you how I decide.
The very first thing I look for in a show is the PROMOTER. Every promoter has both good and bad shows. Like Michelle said. many times the weather plays a major part in the success or failure of a certain show from one year to the next. So when I find a good promoter I will do as many shows as I can with that promoter as I know what to expect. I know who will be there and have extablished friendships with my fellow exhibitors over the years. We then use that friendship to discuss other shows and we can trust each other for straight information as we all have the same expectations.
10X the booth fee. It depends on the time of year and yes, the booth fee itself. During this slow season up here I can reasonably expect 5 to 6 times a $400 booth fee. But believe it or not, spring shows are the lowest grossing shows for us. With the exception of Chester, NJ, June stinks! But at Chester, we can make 10-15 times the space fee.
But PROFIT is the name of the game for me. I can "pay" myself $20 an hour to make something, but I don't make a dime until it sells. So I never "paid" myself an hourly rate. If I had employees, I would have to pay them no matter what I make at a show. So over the years, I learned that the profits of the business is my pay. And I make what would be considered a "middle class" living. And I also have a product where I can make up $4,000+ in stock in a week. So I am able to do shows almost on a weekly basis.
But here's where I might be just a little bit crazy. A big factor in choosing to repeat a show is whether or not I enjoyed the experience! I've done shows where I've done well financially, but the experience left such a bad taste I will not go back. And it never has anything to do with the weather. That's out of everybody's control. And I have done many shows where I had a complete ball! I'll give an example. A number of years ago I did a show in Lebanon, PA. It was called a "Disaster Relief Fund" show. I figured it was for world disaster relief or something like that. Nope. It was a church sponsored event that helped the people of the local community. They knew that Joe Zlotnik got hurt on the job and couldn't pay for heating oil. To Joe, that was a disaster, so the church paid his oil bill. Mary and Jacob's daughter took sick. So the medical bills were paid. Disaster relief. The show was never particularly profitable for me, but I did it a number of times. Because at the end of the weekend, I had such a reassurance the people are still good to each other. I haven't done the show in over 10 years now as I moved away, but I remember it like it was yesterday.
Hi Michelle, I agree with you in that I won't automatically eliminate a show just because it doesn't meet my numbers/goals. Things like weather, booth location, perks, or cause, all come into play for me when deciding about a show.
But I am now so happy that I at least have some calcs/measures to play with!
I love this discussion. I love it because although each persons definition of how to calculate the ideal figures to base ones pros and cons of doing shows may differ we are all looking for the same results.
I agree with pretty much everyone's input so far. Here's somethings I want to add...
For me, as I was under the impression that the only way to have a successful show is to make 10x booth. I always wondered where that figure started out and want to thank Larry for that input. I hear that "figure" all the time and find it ridiculous, now a-days I might add. I do know of some able to do that, but not consistently. I did make that this year as a show I did had a booth fee of $25 and did make 10 times. And yes, I would have to say that is pretty successful all things considered.
My more realistic approach to figuring out if a show is worth doing again goes like this... Look at the expenses of each show (and yes this includes labor, food, gas, cost of products "lost" to make up the booth fee, etc.) and look at the income. The income needs to be more than your expenses to count it as something worth while. My equation is more or less 3 x booth fee. The first "time" is to cover your booth expense + travel, the "2nd" x is to cover the rest of the expenses (give or take some dollars as this is all relative to each show), and usually by the time are you making 3 times your booth fee you are starting to make some income.
In 2009 I made just my booth expenses for most shows, however towards the end of the year I was making a profit at shows.
The exception, when it comes to deciding if a show is worth doing, is looking at other factors. For instance the "economy" wasn't the biggest issue, but the WEATHER. If it wasn't excruciatingly hot, it was pouring rain, and all else in between. If some of the shows I did had ideal weather, yes profits would have exceeded my averages or at least my expectations. Other exceptions could be poor booth location, time of year (other countless shows going on on the same day), over saturation of similar items, etc. I do factor this into "my equation" as well.
“I should also assign a portion of my 'ideal' income to each of those and then calculate a goal for what I should earn at each of those types of events.”
Yes. The target amounts will be experimental for now, since you have not done these before. But when you have real data you can firm things up. For example, the gallery/consignment connections can take a while to get rolling. (BTW…Make sure you add in the extra paperwork and labor needed to prepare work for consignment. If you are only getting 50% of the sale price, plus paying to ship, it may not be worth it. A lot of these places like to carry very many artists, so at any one time they may only have few pieces of yours out. They may tie up your stock for a year and when you get it back, it might be shopworn or will not match your current inventory. If you send 20 pieces, sell 5, and get 15 back tarnished/dented/dusty/ or faded...well, you get the picture. It’s why I dropped all but 3 galleries in the last few years. Plus many of the galleries where I used to have my work have folded, or sales have dropped significantly. Make sure you ask them how many pieces they put out per artist. )
Keep in mind, though, that you may not hit the target, or even approach it, in one year. But do make your goal and see how far short it may be. If you at least have the data you can be pro-active and make a decision, rather than just passively wonder why you have been successful at some things and others, less so. You may find, as an example, that farmer’s markets might have a lower yield than art fairs but more net profit due to lower costs.
For ALL of this, actually, you will have to keep in mind that you are on a learning curve and have not yet had the opportunity to fine-tune your selection of shows and other outlets. Don’t be surprised or discouraged. You are starting at a rough time.
Data, data, data. Collect it, crunch it, analyze it. It’s a business.
“This year I did a mix of farmer's market, craft shows, art shows, a little wholesale, pop up stores etc.
Would you compare them against each other when deciding which to continue?”
Also yes. They are all sources of income, why not compare them against each other? Or are you giving these different relative weights in your mind, apart from the income issue?
What is your goal? Think about that first. Do each of these have different weights in your mind relative to that goal?
Is your goal to be an artist? Whose image of an artist?
To be a successful artist?
To create financial independence?
Have the means to leave a mentally unstimulating 9-5 job?
Work at home in your pajamas?
To avoid getting up early and instead to be true to your biological clock that tells you to work at 2 am?
Spend more time at home with your family (on weekdays…!)
All of the above? Which is the most important?
There are additional intangibles at play here. Some people want to exhibit where they have a chance of an award and possibly get some warm fuzzies from that experience. For many people seeing themselves as an artist is more important than seeing themselves as a businessperson. But I already know I’m an artist: I don’t need my environment to tell me what I am.
More intangibles: Getting some perks at an art show (as opposed to other venues) lessens that “aggravation factor” I mentioned in my first post. A nice dinner, friendly volunteers, smiling faces, etc., can go a long way. I did a show for the first time last summer that had all of those…but darn it, I still didn’t make enough to compensate for that 8 hour drive, 3 hotel nights, 3 tanks of gas, and 4 days away from home. Now if it were only 3 hours away….I’d go back.
Denise Handwerker said:
Linnea, it does help a lot!
So I created a spreadsheet and included all the expenses that I could think of that were related to the event. I included the hours worked at the fair for myself, but I did not include the cost of creating my inventory. That will have to be the next step. I do compare earnings to expenses in January (right now! but that doesn't include my labor.)
So to make sure I understand your idea.. for example: If I want to make 50,000 a year, and I want to do 20 shows a year. I need to earn $2500 a show, after expenses? But for this to be truly a good number, I have to include the costs of creating my inventory.
So taking this a step further (because this is where I am at) if I also want to do wholesale or consignment, I should also assign a portion of my 'ideal' income to each of those and then calculate a goal for what I should earn at each of those types of events.
This year I did a mix of farmer's market, craft shows, art shows, a little wholesale, pop up stores etc. Would you compare them against each other when deciding which to continue?
So I created a spreadsheet and included all the expenses that I could think of that were related to the event. I included the hours worked at the fair for myself, but I did not include the cost of creating my inventory. That will have to be the next step. I do compare earnings to expenses in January (right now! but that doesn't include my labor.)
So to make sure I understand your idea..
for example:
If I want to make 50,000 a year, and I want to do 20 shows a year. I need to earn $2500 a show, after expenses? But for this to be truly a good number, I have to include the costs of creating my inventory.
So taking this a step further (because this is where I am at) if I also want to do wholesale or consignment, I should also assign a portion of my 'ideal' income to each of those and then calculate a goal for what I should earn at each of those types of events.
This year I did a mix of farmer's market, craft shows, art shows, a little wholesale, pop up stores etc.
Would you compare them against each other when deciding which to continue?
Actually, it’s very important that you start doing this. I am always surprised at how many people don’t know if they are making a reasonable return for their investment or not.
“10 times the booth fee” is a yardstick that has been around a long time. As booth fees have gone way up over the years, many people say it is no longer valid. For example, 10 x a fee of $400 would yield $4,000. Many (myself included) would be delirious over weekend sales of $4,000. “10 times” made more sense when booth fees were modest, like under $100. But it is a useful place to start. You will need more than one measure.
When I started out I found it more useful to consider what I made, compared to the hourly rate of what I had been earning in my job. FWIW, I loved my old job (Scientific Illustrator), but was hardly getting rich at it. Day care ate up half my income.
At the risk of being obvious: it’s not the hours you spend at the show: it’s all the hours you spend producing your work as well. I don’t exactly count travel times in this (not directly): because I did not get paid for commuting time to and from my job either. If you find yourself consistently earning minimum wage, for example, it’s time to consider whether this is worth the time and aggravation.
It took me 3 years until I could equal what I had earned as an illustrator. After a couple of years of experience I had made my own yardstick: the minimum I would accept per show day. To arrive at the figure I use, I took the figure I would have to earn to equal my old job, then divided by the number of show days in a year. Most years I could give myself a modest raise (after subtracting expenses). Considering I was raising my kids at home at the same time, it was not too bad. I did put in a lot of late hours after my husband came home from work. They are now grown and I no longer have to work the “nighttime shift”.
That amount, minimum per show day, takes into account what I have had to spend on a hotel and gas. I don’t count food because if I were at home I would still be eating. (I don’t eat out on the road, or if there is no choice, spend the absolute minimum.) So, for example, $ 500 earned at a nearby show is worth more than $ 500 earned at a show where I stayed 2 nights in a hotel and filled up the tank twice. The latter “$ 500” may be actually $ 300.
After a few more years I added into the equation a non-tangible I call the “aggravation factor”. Calculated into the “Aggravation Factor” are things like : length of time away from home, physical difficulties of doing a show such as long dollying, late hours, stressful atmosphere, theft, etc. I take the amount I earned and multiply that by a factor that takes that into account. In this way the $ 300 above may be multiplied by 0.8 to equal $ 240.
I keep good records of expenditures: materials to make my work, equipment, and expenses like jury and show fees. I make a Profit and Loss sheet every year in January, and find out quickly enough if I was on target for the year. With so many fees going out early in the year, before I know how well I might sell that summer, it is hard to figure out profitability more than once a year. If I am not on target I figure out what I need to cut. When lower sales in 2008 brought me almost back down to the Illustrator salary level again, I decided I needed to cut: jury fees to shows that had never accepted me, booth fees required upfront to shows that do not offer refunds, gas (so I didn’t drive as far in 2009), and materials. I stopped buying supplies that I was not immediately ready to use, and started concentrating on making what is called “just in time” inventory. Instead of making 10 pairs of a style (and tying up $ in something that might take too long to sell), I made only a few. Only when they sold would I make more of that style. I stopped “stockpiling” supplies and consequently, inventory. If something takes a year to sell, you are losing money.
Replies
Not that I don’t have a good time at it, most of the time (only bad/dangerous weather makes me anxious). I enjoy the human interaction too. It’s like fuel to recharge me.
It’s just that I enjoy everything so much more when I make money.
Dave Hinde said:
Seriously, my goal is usually to make expenses early on the first day, then just sit back and enjoy the rest of the weekend. I only lost money at one show in the last 2 years, and I'm doing that show again in 2010. It's the Chincoteague Island Decoy and Wildlife Art Show, Easter Weekend. I enjoyed the show, but if I lose money again, I may not do it in 2011!
No.
Everybody does this for different reasons. First and foremost, I do this because I make my entire income from shows. So my situation is different than many others. But I'll tell you how I decide.
The very first thing I look for in a show is the PROMOTER. Every promoter has both good and bad shows. Like Michelle said. many times the weather plays a major part in the success or failure of a certain show from one year to the next. So when I find a good promoter I will do as many shows as I can with that promoter as I know what to expect. I know who will be there and have extablished friendships with my fellow exhibitors over the years. We then use that friendship to discuss other shows and we can trust each other for straight information as we all have the same expectations.
10X the booth fee. It depends on the time of year and yes, the booth fee itself. During this slow season up here I can reasonably expect 5 to 6 times a $400 booth fee. But believe it or not, spring shows are the lowest grossing shows for us. With the exception of Chester, NJ, June stinks! But at Chester, we can make 10-15 times the space fee.
But PROFIT is the name of the game for me. I can "pay" myself $20 an hour to make something, but I don't make a dime until it sells. So I never "paid" myself an hourly rate. If I had employees, I would have to pay them no matter what I make at a show. So over the years, I learned that the profits of the business is my pay. And I make what would be considered a "middle class" living. And I also have a product where I can make up $4,000+ in stock in a week. So I am able to do shows almost on a weekly basis.
But here's where I might be just a little bit crazy. A big factor in choosing to repeat a show is whether or not I enjoyed the experience! I've done shows where I've done well financially, but the experience left such a bad taste I will not go back. And it never has anything to do with the weather. That's out of everybody's control. And I have done many shows where I had a complete ball! I'll give an example. A number of years ago I did a show in Lebanon, PA. It was called a "Disaster Relief Fund" show. I figured it was for world disaster relief or something like that. Nope. It was a church sponsored event that helped the people of the local community. They knew that Joe Zlotnik got hurt on the job and couldn't pay for heating oil. To Joe, that was a disaster, so the church paid his oil bill. Mary and Jacob's daughter took sick. So the medical bills were paid. Disaster relief. The show was never particularly profitable for me, but I did it a number of times. Because at the end of the weekend, I had such a reassurance the people are still good to each other. I haven't done the show in over 10 years now as I moved away, but I remember it like it was yesterday.
But I am now so happy that I at least have some calcs/measures to play with!
Denise
http://www.feltwerker.com
Thanks so much for the time you took to answer my questions.
You have given me some good guidance.
I agree with pretty much everyone's input so far. Here's somethings I want to add...
For me, as I was under the impression that the only way to have a successful show is to make 10x booth. I always wondered where that figure started out and want to thank Larry for that input. I hear that "figure" all the time and find it ridiculous, now a-days I might add. I do know of some able to do that, but not consistently. I did make that this year as a show I did had a booth fee of $25 and did make 10 times. And yes, I would have to say that is pretty successful all things considered.
My more realistic approach to figuring out if a show is worth doing again goes like this... Look at the expenses of each show (and yes this includes labor, food, gas, cost of products "lost" to make up the booth fee, etc.) and look at the income. The income needs to be more than your expenses to count it as something worth while. My equation is more or less 3 x booth fee. The first "time" is to cover your booth expense + travel, the "2nd" x is to cover the rest of the expenses (give or take some dollars as this is all relative to each show), and usually by the time are you making 3 times your booth fee you are starting to make some income.
In 2009 I made just my booth expenses for most shows, however towards the end of the year I was making a profit at shows.
The exception, when it comes to deciding if a show is worth doing, is looking at other factors. For instance the "economy" wasn't the biggest issue, but the WEATHER. If it wasn't excruciatingly hot, it was pouring rain, and all else in between. If some of the shows I did had ideal weather, yes profits would have exceeded my averages or at least my expectations. Other exceptions could be poor booth location, time of year (other countless shows going on on the same day), over saturation of similar items, etc. I do factor this into "my equation" as well.
Hope this helps... Michelle
www.bythebaybotanicals.com
www.quickcraftartisttips.blogspot.com
Yes. The target amounts will be experimental for now, since you have not done these before. But when you have real data you can firm things up. For example, the gallery/consignment connections can take a while to get rolling. (BTW…Make sure you add in the extra paperwork and labor needed to prepare work for consignment. If you are only getting 50% of the sale price, plus paying to ship, it may not be worth it. A lot of these places like to carry very many artists, so at any one time they may only have few pieces of yours out. They may tie up your stock for a year and when you get it back, it might be shopworn or will not match your current inventory. If you send 20 pieces, sell 5, and get 15 back tarnished/dented/dusty/ or faded...well, you get the picture. It’s why I dropped all but 3 galleries in the last few years. Plus many of the galleries where I used to have my work have folded, or sales have dropped significantly. Make sure you ask them how many pieces they put out per artist. )
Keep in mind, though, that you may not hit the target, or even approach it, in one year. But do make your goal and see how far short it may be. If you at least have the data you can be pro-active and make a decision, rather than just passively wonder why you have been successful at some things and others, less so. You may find, as an example, that farmer’s markets might have a lower yield than art fairs but more net profit due to lower costs.
For ALL of this, actually, you will have to keep in mind that you are on a learning curve and have not yet had the opportunity to fine-tune your selection of shows and other outlets. Don’t be surprised or discouraged. You are starting at a rough time.
Data, data, data. Collect it, crunch it, analyze it. It’s a business.
“This year I did a mix of farmer's market, craft shows, art shows, a little wholesale, pop up stores etc.
Would you compare them against each other when deciding which to continue?”
Also yes. They are all sources of income, why not compare them against each other? Or are you giving these different relative weights in your mind, apart from the income issue?
What is your goal? Think about that first. Do each of these have different weights in your mind relative to that goal?
Is your goal to be an artist? Whose image of an artist?
To be a successful artist?
To create financial independence?
Have the means to leave a mentally unstimulating 9-5 job?
Work at home in your pajamas?
To avoid getting up early and instead to be true to your biological clock that tells you to work at 2 am?
Spend more time at home with your family (on weekdays…!)
All of the above? Which is the most important?
There are additional intangibles at play here. Some people want to exhibit where they have a chance of an award and possibly get some warm fuzzies from that experience. For many people seeing themselves as an artist is more important than seeing themselves as a businessperson. But I already know I’m an artist: I don’t need my environment to tell me what I am.
More intangibles: Getting some perks at an art show (as opposed to other venues) lessens that “aggravation factor” I mentioned in my first post. A nice dinner, friendly volunteers, smiling faces, etc., can go a long way. I did a show for the first time last summer that had all of those…but darn it, I still didn’t make enough to compensate for that 8 hour drive, 3 hotel nights, 3 tanks of gas, and 4 days away from home. Now if it were only 3 hours away….I’d go back.
Denise Handwerker said:
So I created a spreadsheet and included all the expenses that I could think of that were related to the event. I included the hours worked at the fair for myself, but I did not include the cost of creating my inventory. That will have to be the next step. I do compare earnings to expenses in January (right now! but that doesn't include my labor.)
So to make sure I understand your idea..
for example:
If I want to make 50,000 a year, and I want to do 20 shows a year. I need to earn $2500 a show, after expenses? But for this to be truly a good number, I have to include the costs of creating my inventory.
So taking this a step further (because this is where I am at) if I also want to do wholesale or consignment, I should also assign a portion of my 'ideal' income to each of those and then calculate a goal for what I should earn at each of those types of events.
This year I did a mix of farmer's market, craft shows, art shows, a little wholesale, pop up stores etc.
Would you compare them against each other when deciding which to continue?
Thanks so much!
Denise
http://www.feltwerker.com
Actually, it’s very important that you start doing this. I am always surprised at how many people don’t know if they are making a reasonable return for their investment or not.
“10 times the booth fee” is a yardstick that has been around a long time. As booth fees have gone way up over the years, many people say it is no longer valid. For example, 10 x a fee of $400 would yield $4,000. Many (myself included) would be delirious over weekend sales of $4,000. “10 times” made more sense when booth fees were modest, like under $100. But it is a useful place to start. You will need more than one measure.
When I started out I found it more useful to consider what I made, compared to the hourly rate of what I had been earning in my job. FWIW, I loved my old job (Scientific Illustrator), but was hardly getting rich at it. Day care ate up half my income.
At the risk of being obvious: it’s not the hours you spend at the show: it’s all the hours you spend producing your work as well. I don’t exactly count travel times in this (not directly): because I did not get paid for commuting time to and from my job either. If you find yourself consistently earning minimum wage, for example, it’s time to consider whether this is worth the time and aggravation.
It took me 3 years until I could equal what I had earned as an illustrator. After a couple of years of experience I had made my own yardstick: the minimum I would accept per show day. To arrive at the figure I use, I took the figure I would have to earn to equal my old job, then divided by the number of show days in a year. Most years I could give myself a modest raise (after subtracting expenses). Considering I was raising my kids at home at the same time, it was not too bad. I did put in a lot of late hours after my husband came home from work. They are now grown and I no longer have to work the “nighttime shift”.
That amount, minimum per show day, takes into account what I have had to spend on a hotel and gas. I don’t count food because if I were at home I would still be eating. (I don’t eat out on the road, or if there is no choice, spend the absolute minimum.) So, for example, $ 500 earned at a nearby show is worth more than $ 500 earned at a show where I stayed 2 nights in a hotel and filled up the tank twice. The latter “$ 500” may be actually $ 300.
After a few more years I added into the equation a non-tangible I call the “aggravation factor”. Calculated into the “Aggravation Factor” are things like : length of time away from home, physical difficulties of doing a show such as long dollying, late hours, stressful atmosphere, theft, etc. I take the amount I earned and multiply that by a factor that takes that into account. In this way the $ 300 above may be multiplied by 0.8 to equal $ 240.
I keep good records of expenditures: materials to make my work, equipment, and expenses like jury and show fees. I make a Profit and Loss sheet every year in January, and find out quickly enough if I was on target for the year. With so many fees going out early in the year, before I know how well I might sell that summer, it is hard to figure out profitability more than once a year. If I am not on target I figure out what I need to cut. When lower sales in 2008 brought me almost back down to the Illustrator salary level again, I decided I needed to cut: jury fees to shows that had never accepted me, booth fees required upfront to shows that do not offer refunds, gas (so I didn’t drive as far in 2009), and materials. I stopped buying supplies that I was not immediately ready to use, and started concentrating on making what is called “just in time” inventory. Instead of making 10 pairs of a style (and tying up $ in something that might take too long to sell), I made only a few. Only when they sold would I make more of that style. I stopped “stockpiling” supplies and consequently, inventory. If something takes a year to sell, you are losing money.
Hope this helps!
I think 10 times the booth fee would be great! I'm not there yet.
denise
http://www.feltwerker.com
-
1
-
2
of 2 Next