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  Robert Leuallen January 9, 2011 at 1:48am

  I suppose it's also a sort of "supply & demand" thing where if shows have no problems filling their shows, they won't be motivated to treat artist more financially fair. We could all go on Strike! We'd have great artistic strike signs. I agree with Connie, most show organizers do work very hard, they just need some help in better understanding the financial plight of many artists who can't afford the level of pre-show cash flow a number of them require. Maybe the list being put together will apply some pressure.
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  Connie Mettler January 8, 2011 at 10:50pm

  Great news! Lucky you, you got to meet Geri.

  I am looking into a way to enable us all to meet one another offline, or at least find one another at the shows we are doing.

  So glad to hear you appreciate all the hard work that goes on behind the scenes at these shows. So many of them are entirely volunteer events, they hardly have time to do their regular work and then volunteer to work on something that is dear to their hearts...and really, no malice intended, absolutely do their best. I do believe it would be great if they could, at least in their local communities, talk to one another there is so much shared background.

  I'm dreaming of being on the UM campus tomorrow in the sunshine. Have a great day.
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  Larry Hering January 8, 2011 at 9:02pm

  Hey, Connie, thanks  for the support. 

   

  There's no intent to badmouth anybody here;  The people who put on these shows, for the jost part, work their butts off.  But if we all get on the same wavelength regarding what's legit and ethical and whats not we protect each other.

   

  Amanda and I will look into joining NAIA today.

   

   

  And thanks to Larry Berman who took the time to call; our conversation regarding this and other subjects was enlightening and to Geri Wegner who showed up at our booth at Beaux Arts today just to chat about many subjects..    It's a community!
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  Connie Mettler January 8, 2011 at 3:47pm

  Yes, I am here, Larry...that is a great idea to put together an Excel program. The software on this site, best I know, doesn't accept an Excel -- but you could certainly start this in the "discussion" area with the info you have and then others could add additional shows. This is a little clumsy, but about all I have to offer at this point.

  Holly, have you gotten your money back yet? Make sure you link to their site everyone to make sure they are hearing our message,http://www.capecoralfestival.com/. I hate to be an apologist for this practice, but smaller volunteer art fairs have no idea what the rest of the shows are doing. They just need to be told over and over. Oh, I also see that they have a Facebook page. Did anyone post there about this problem?

   

  Please do NOT give Zapp the credit for the policy of "show fee due upon acceptance." Years ago, as Susan said, all booth fees accompanied jury fees and artists would be sitting there with $1000's of dollars out there waiting to hear. The NAIA gets the credit -- when this organization of artists was formed over 15 years ago this was one of its primary goals. NAIA has been around longer than Zapp and its purpose is to make life easier for art fair artists. This policy was one of their first actions. They got the "big" shows on board and the smaller events filed in behind. This is membership renewal month for the NAIA. If you want to contribute to the only arts organization out there that works for your benefit join them today.
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  Robert Leuallen January 6, 2011 at 12:38pm

  Ah, that's what we need, a precedent setting law suit to shake up the art show promoter world.
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  Larry Hering January 6, 2011 at 12:43am

  Bruce, you're right on!  I don't have a problem with a reasonable refund policy that protects the promoter.    Refunding after the space is filled by someone else makes a lot of sense.

   

  Charles' idea isn't bad, if the promoter is willing to follow a schedule.

   

  I've got the excel program up; anyone who wants to add a show tot he list is welcome to do so;  I'm not verifying anything, but I would like it to be accurate; it would be a shame to give a show an undeserved bad rap.

   

  And, yeah, I now read all the rules more carefully.  We learn by screwing up.  Well, sometimes!

   

  Anyone who wants the excel file (pretty small at this time) is welcome to it;  just email me and I'll send a to you.
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  phillip hall January 5, 2011 at 6:39pm

   This is a long running ,festering ,ethical problem.  I remember when Bruce Meyer had a life altering injury and it took a multitude of emails from other artists to shame a show in to giving his money back.  Like Dylan sang, Money doesn't talk it swears.
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  Charles Bingham January 5, 2011 at 6:17pm

  It is frustrating to plan your schedule while running into these policies.

  I will only apply to these shows if I have no other show to apply to that weekend.

   

  I understand that is added work for the show producers. After carefully picking out just the right artists for their show, to have to deal with cancellations and have to find replacements... especially if they are last minute.

  It doesn't have to be that difficult though... If the producers simply create a wait list of high scoring artists during their jury process, and encourage early notification of cancellation by refunding a little less of the booth fee with every week that passes after notification it doesn't really become a burdon.

  It's reasonable for the artists and easier on the producers.

   

  Here are a few Michigan shows that still have this policy...

  (They tend to be smaller shows run by local groups that are either unaware of competing shows or don't realize the burden that is put on the artists by having this policy.)

  Art on the rocks, Marquette Mich.

  Art in the Park, Holland, Mich

  Reeds lake art festival,  Grand Rapids, Mich.

  Portside Art Fair, East Jordan, Mich.

   

  This is just the few I have noticed.

  I have emailed the shows that I didn't apply to letting them know why I didn't apply. I stressed that the really top-notch artists out there that do this full time for a living won't apply to their show because of this policy, and as a result the quality of their show will suffer. They would be missing out on some really amazing artwork that would bring excitement and prestige to their show. It is completely up to them if they want to have a highly anticipated cultural event, or just another tent city with a low turnout of apathetic visitors.

   

  Remember.... Read the application rules. If they are not clear (some were not) ASK!

  If the policy is no refunds after acceptance, proceed accordingly.

   
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  Bruce Meyer January 5, 2011 at 4:59pm

  I will say this again.  It is unethical and shows a void of morality for any show to refuse to refund a booth fee IF the space is filled from the wait list.

  If you must cancel any show at any time; call the show and let them know that you need to cancel and need a refund when they resell the space.  If they refuse then do NOT cancel by letting them know that they will have a hole in their show.

  Every show should ALWAYS refund a booth fee IF they fill the show from the wait list.  To do otherwise is akin to theft and shows a complete lack of ethics by the show.
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  Kathy Laga January 5, 2011 at 1:00pm

  I discovered with these "send both checks at once" shows that if you are accepted, they immediately cash your booth fee check - they are generally pretty clear about that in their applications.  So you have to be really sure that you want to do that show when you apply.  There are enough other shows that don't ask for booth fees up front that this has become a go/no go measure for me on whether or not to apply to a show.