I would be interested in hearing others' comments on the Central PA show. When I found out I was going there and then to Ann Arbor I thought there would be two great shows plus, it would allow me to leave Texas and enjoy the cool weather in Michigan (hah!). There have been several other comments on the lovely weather in Ann Arbor so I won't go there. It was much nicer in PA and the crowds were very large even though a large % was college kids who weren't spending much on art. It spite of all that, Central PA was the worst show I've had in my entire career of doing shows. I'm still a novice at this and trying to learn where I should and shouldn't go so I have to admit it's my own fault. And, I suppose I've been placing too much emphasis on rankings, reputation, size of show, etc. However, I would have thought Central PA couldn't possibly yield lower sales than one of my local high-schools' Christmas show but, no such luck. So, after 3000 miles and two weeks I have to admit that I know a lot less than I thought I did. Guess maybe that falls under the category of "experience". Now I'm afraid to apply to anything further than 100 miles from home! I'm just curious if anyone else received the same sort or "shock" that I did. Or, am I the only one who crashed and burned at State College?
Laurie, thanks for your input. Mr. Adams might have been onto something. Part of my problem is that for most of my younger life I thought "art" consisted of paintings and not much else. Therefore, I still don't think I could offer a decent definition of "art". As I said earlier, I've never considered myself an artist. I just jump in and build something and if someone thinks it's artistic, all the better. Wonder what we'd get if everyone on here gave us their definition of art?
Thank you for your input. Obviously, I believe you're right. Regarding theft and vandalism, the following sort of defines the show for me. I had left 3-4 pieces in a packing crate behind my tent. During the night someone removed the nicer one of the group and it was found in the bushes about 50 feet away. So, I could say that, "not only could I not "give" things away -- I couldn't even get anyone to steal it! And, by Sunday I was wishing someone would steal something in hopes someone might want it!
We used to do that show up until about 5 years ago. We initially had some great shows there but each year our sales seemed to decrease and the last one was pretty dismal. It seemed like as in previous comments, traditional work was not really what the buyers were looking for. Also the theft and vandalism in the booths was another reason to say goodbye to this one. The people that seemed to have the best show were the ones that had small, inexpensive 3-D objects. I will never forget the first year we did the show, a woman near us was selling inexpensive wall mount glass vases. She could not keep up with the crowds! Just not your show so don't give up, there are plenty of other ones!
Hi Don, So sorry about the show, thanks for sharing, (I can't imagine folks thinking they can get rich from this), here is a favorite quote of mine about art:
“I get very worried about this idea of art. Having been an English literary graduate, I’ve been trying to avoid the idea of doing art every since. I think the idea of art kills creativity. ~Douglas Adams
Connie, you have no reason to ask to be forgiven for anything. I always appreciate the comments of others, especially those of you who have been doing this for a living and have become experts in the field. And, sometimes the most negative comments (which I've never considered yours to be) are the ones that slap us in the face and teach us something. I have been doing it for awhile and I never came into it thinking it was a "get rich quick" sort of thing. And, after the first couple of shows, I no longer thought it was physically easy! The problem is that, for a fair amount of time after I started, the money wasn't a big issue. I've never been wealthly but, for a long time, I did have another job and didn't need to be terribly concerned about whether or not I made money. If I could just cover expenses I was happy. I picked shows based more on whether or not I liked the area, etc., etc. without much regard as to the show being the "right" fit to me. However, times and situations change and my attitude changed and I found myself in a position of needing to get serious about this. And, as you obviously know, it's quite a transition from being a "hobby" to being a business and much of what I learned in the hobby stage doesn't count for much in the reality of things. So, I guess you could say that I'm trying to learn all the things that I should have been learning from the beginning. As the football coaches say, the pre-season ended and the games started "counting". I still have no dreams of getting rich off this. My ultimate goal is to keep doing something I love doing while being able to eat fairly regularly, pay the bills, etc. And, in order to do that, I'm having to learn things I should have been learning a long time ago. I read where so-and-so artist made $15,000 at a show and that is beyond my realm of comprehension. My goal is much lower. I just want to work, doing something I love to do and do it in an atmosphere that is the right "fit" for me. Finding that "fit" has not been easy and I'm learning a lot. But, I still have a long way to go. I've never considered myself an artist so I sometimes feel guilty for even being on this site. And, in a lot of shows I look around and think "geez, what am I doing here with all these talented people who are actually creating art". And, in truth, I've simply had no business being in a lot of the shows I've done. I simply take a few pieces of wood that God made and put them together which seems to place me more in the category of a carpenter. I suppose my greatest priority at this time is to try and identify those shows that are the right fit for me regardless of their size, reputation, ranking in the Top 100, etc. For a long time I allowed those sorts of things to be the determining factor in my decision to do a particular show and I realize I was looking at the wrong things. Sure, they are worth consideration. But, I realize they are no substitute for the experience of those who have been there and can provide first-hand knowledge. I've done a lot of those shows in the Top 100 and left with about $5.00 in my pocket. Walked out right behind the guy who made fifteen grand!
Please don't ever hesitate to share your honest opinion with me. If it happens to appear negative, so be it. I'll still learn from it and that's the entire point of all this.
Wow, Christine, what a thoughtful response. I think we need you to do a seminar for us.
Don, please forgive some of the comments I made earlier basically asking if you'd been around for awhile. It totally seems you have... and know what you are doing and have been in some of the top shows. It sometimes seems that people come into this business thinking it is a "get rich quick" place -- all the crowds at the shows, all the excitement and publicity, can only lead to easy sales. We all know that some people do come in with highly developed skills and do seem to have the key to making this marketplace work for them, but others get in way over their heads buying equipment and laying out money for expensive shows before they have tested the viability of their assets.
Thanks Christine for your comments. All good food for thought. You mentioued asking others as being obvious and you are right. Unfortunately, it's the obvious things that we (I) sometimes neglect to follow up on. In the future I think I'll not wait until a show is over before I ask!
One factor that may help you Don is to get advice from others in your medium. This may sound obvious but is still your best bet. Many shows are known to favor certain categories of art. Knowing that, getting info from others in your medium may be difficult due to the competitive nature of same. "Tell me what shows are good for you" then gives that artist more competition in the show. But if you have a few good friends or associates or even meet some artists at the show, some will share the treasured facts.
In my category, ceramics, a few of us aren't shy to help each other because we don't compete with each other as our styles are so different.
The main thing we look for is: Do the people buy our medium?
The second thing is: Do they buy high end or low?
Sometimes we find out this: They used to buy our high end. Now they are just buying little stuff.
When this happens and we still want to sell high end we know that we need a new market because we have either exhausted our market or the market has changed economically.
Exhausting your market doesn't always happen because the economy goes south. Sometimes those who buy art are looking for something else or tire of your work if you don't add new pieces.
When the economy is in a recession as it is now, or as it is referred to as a slow recovery, the area of selling is very influenced by their own business climate.
Some areas of the country are still suffering from the recession. One thing I do know is to do shows where the economy is still functioning and large. And doing shows near home and developing your home market is smart but may take time, well worth it over time, patience, and confidence.
One thing I've been noticing is the law of probable futures. It explains why some people do good at a show when no one else is. It has something to do with the probable outcome of a set of circumstances with certain parameters. And explains why an artist can sell a $15,000 sculpture at one show after doing 3 shows with no sales!
Thank you Connie and Larry for your comments. It's nice to hear from two people, both of whose opinions I've come to highly respect over the past couple of years. I have had a few good shows not too far from my home. Bayou Festival in Houston was good for me and Oklahoma City has been a decent show. War Eagle, Arkansas has been one of my best and Omaha was good. Ironically, I received more follow-up orders from Omaha than I sold at the show. That fact in itself would have made it a good show had I not sold anything. However, I haven't found enough to fill a reasonable schedule and, I have to admit that I do catch that "hitting the road" bug now and then.
But, I'd like to think I'm prudent enough to not yield to going simply to be getting out of town. Plus, from a financial standpoint, that sort of behavior would last only a very short time. As you well know, participating in two major & expensive shows half way across the country can get pretty costly and, if you don't have fairly decent sales, you won't do it very many times. At least I won't! I suppose one who may be doing it simply for fun and not concerned about the money could do it indefinitely but, unfortunately, I don't fall in that category.
Yes, I did go to Ann Arbor and my sales there were around six times what they had been in PA in spite of the "lovely" Michigan weather. However, they weren't what I would like to have had to cover the entire trip and make up for the loss in PA.
I'm not blind to the fact that my work is never going to sell like jewelry and a few other items but I have had enough success with it that I feel it's a viable product and I enjoy the work. But, there is no question that it will never appeal to the masses like a few other things and I accept that. And, I've been fortunate to have developed a small following of strangers in different locations so that I continue to get orders long after a show has ended.
I do try and follow your advice of asking on this site and I've received some valuable information and advice. But, I don't recall ever asking about CPFA and perhaps if I had things would have been different. My greatest handicap probably lies in the following.
It doesn't seem economically feasable (even if it were possible) to go around the country doing all the shows one can in order to see which ones are good and which ones aren't so that a future schedule can be generated. And, for a particular show, so many other factors come into play such as current economic conditions, weather, etc. The bottom line is that after all this time I think I'm still wandering blind in trying to determine which shows I should go for and which ones I should leave alone. This goes to Larry's comment about being too traditional and I think he's probably right on the money. In addition to asking (as you mentioned), studying all I can about a show, looking at rankings, etc., etc., I'd like to come up with some additional tools to help make the decision. And I know that I have neglected things that would fall under the area of Larry's comment. I've got to het a better handle on that.
One final comment. I noticed, in Sunshine Artist's Audit Report that the Frankfort Fall Festival in Frankfort, IL had had a consistently high ranking (on the craft side) for the past five years. CPFA had a similar high ranking on the arts side. Considering that other factors can come into play, is it obvious that I should choose Frankfort over PA if I had my choice? And, I'm using these two shows as examples. It's the idea of the ranking in the different categories that I'm referring to. Larry, I suppose this question would be more for you since you've seen what I do.
I suppose none of us has a crystal ball to answer all these questions and if we did we'd probably be very wealthly. However, I simply have to find a better way of making the decision as to which shows I should be going for.
Comments
Laurie, thanks for your input. Mr. Adams might have been onto something. Part of my problem is that for most of my younger life I thought "art" consisted of paintings and not much else. Therefore, I still don't think I could offer a decent definition of "art". As I said earlier, I've never considered myself an artist. I just jump in and build something and if someone thinks it's artistic, all the better. Wonder what we'd get if everyone on here gave us their definition of art?
Janet/John,
Thank you for your input. Obviously, I believe you're right. Regarding theft and vandalism, the following sort of defines the show for me. I had left 3-4 pieces in a packing crate behind my tent. During the night someone removed the nicer one of the group and it was found in the bushes about 50 feet away. So, I could say that, "not only could I not "give" things away -- I couldn't even get anyone to steal it! And, by Sunday I was wishing someone would steal something in hopes someone might want it!
Thanks again.
Hi Don:
We used to do that show up until about 5 years ago. We initially had some great shows there but each year our sales seemed to decrease and the last one was pretty dismal. It seemed like as in previous comments, traditional work was not really what the buyers were looking for. Also the theft and vandalism in the booths was another reason to say goodbye to this one. The people that seemed to have the best show were the ones that had small, inexpensive 3-D objects. I will never forget the first year we did the show, a woman near us was selling inexpensive wall mount glass vases. She could not keep up with the crowds! Just not your show so don't give up, there are plenty of other ones!
Hi Don, So sorry about the show, thanks for sharing, (I can't imagine folks thinking they can get rich from this), here is a favorite quote of mine about art:
“I get very worried about this idea of art. Having been an English literary graduate, I’ve been trying to avoid the idea of doing art every since. I think the idea of art kills creativity. ~Douglas Adams
Connie, you have no reason to ask to be forgiven for anything. I always appreciate the comments of others, especially those of you who have been doing this for a living and have become experts in the field. And, sometimes the most negative comments (which I've never considered yours to be) are the ones that slap us in the face and teach us something. I have been doing it for awhile and I never came into it thinking it was a "get rich quick" sort of thing. And, after the first couple of shows, I no longer thought it was physically easy! The problem is that, for a fair amount of time after I started, the money wasn't a big issue. I've never been wealthly but, for a long time, I did have another job and didn't need to be terribly concerned about whether or not I made money. If I could just cover expenses I was happy. I picked shows based more on whether or not I liked the area, etc., etc. without much regard as to the show being the "right" fit to me. However, times and situations change and my attitude changed and I found myself in a position of needing to get serious about this. And, as you obviously know, it's quite a transition from being a "hobby" to being a business and much of what I learned in the hobby stage doesn't count for much in the reality of things. So, I guess you could say that I'm trying to learn all the things that I should have been learning from the beginning. As the football coaches say, the pre-season ended and the games started "counting". I still have no dreams of getting rich off this. My ultimate goal is to keep doing something I love doing while being able to eat fairly regularly, pay the bills, etc. And, in order to do that, I'm having to learn things I should have been learning a long time ago. I read where so-and-so artist made $15,000 at a show and that is beyond my realm of comprehension. My goal is much lower. I just want to work, doing something I love to do and do it in an atmosphere that is the right "fit" for me. Finding that "fit" has not been easy and I'm learning a lot. But, I still have a long way to go. I've never considered myself an artist so I sometimes feel guilty for even being on this site. And, in a lot of shows I look around and think "geez, what am I doing here with all these talented people who are actually creating art". And, in truth, I've simply had no business being in a lot of the shows I've done. I simply take a few pieces of wood that God made and put them together which seems to place me more in the category of a carpenter. I suppose my greatest priority at this time is to try and identify those shows that are the right fit for me regardless of their size, reputation, ranking in the Top 100, etc. For a long time I allowed those sorts of things to be the determining factor in my decision to do a particular show and I realize I was looking at the wrong things. Sure, they are worth consideration. But, I realize they are no substitute for the experience of those who have been there and can provide first-hand knowledge. I've done a lot of those shows in the Top 100 and left with about $5.00 in my pocket. Walked out right behind the guy who made fifteen grand!
Please don't ever hesitate to share your honest opinion with me. If it happens to appear negative, so be it. I'll still learn from it and that's the entire point of all this.
Thank you.
Wow, Christine, what a thoughtful response. I think we need you to do a seminar for us.
Don, please forgive some of the comments I made earlier basically asking if you'd been around for awhile. It totally seems you have... and know what you are doing and have been in some of the top shows. It sometimes seems that people come into this business thinking it is a "get rich quick" place -- all the crowds at the shows, all the excitement and publicity, can only lead to easy sales. We all know that some people do come in with highly developed skills and do seem to have the key to making this marketplace work for them, but others get in way over their heads buying equipment and laying out money for expensive shows before they have tested the viability of their assets.
Thanks Christine for your comments. All good food for thought. You mentioued asking others as being obvious and you are right. Unfortunately, it's the obvious things that we (I) sometimes neglect to follow up on. In the future I think I'll not wait until a show is over before I ask!
Thanks again for your input.
One factor that may help you Don is to get advice from others in your medium. This may sound obvious but is still your best bet. Many shows are known to favor certain categories of art. Knowing that, getting info from others in your medium may be difficult due to the competitive nature of same. "Tell me what shows are good for you" then gives that artist more competition in the show. But if you have a few good friends or associates or even meet some artists at the show, some will share the treasured facts.
In my category, ceramics, a few of us aren't shy to help each other because we don't compete with each other as our styles are so different.
The main thing we look for is: Do the people buy our medium?
The second thing is: Do they buy high end or low?
Sometimes we find out this: They used to buy our high end. Now they are just buying little stuff.
When this happens and we still want to sell high end we know that we need a new market because we have either exhausted our market or the market has changed economically.
Exhausting your market doesn't always happen because the economy goes south. Sometimes those who buy art are looking for something else or tire of your work if you don't add new pieces.
When the economy is in a recession as it is now, or as it is referred to as a slow recovery, the area of selling is very influenced by their own business climate.
Some areas of the country are still suffering from the recession. One thing I do know is to do shows where the economy is still functioning and large. And doing shows near home and developing your home market is smart but may take time, well worth it over time, patience, and confidence.
One thing I've been noticing is the law of probable futures. It explains why some people do good at a show when no one else is. It has something to do with the probable outcome of a set of circumstances with certain parameters. And explains why an artist can sell a $15,000 sculpture at one show after doing 3 shows with no sales!
Thank you Connie and Larry for your comments. It's nice to hear from two people, both of whose opinions I've come to highly respect over the past couple of years. I have had a few good shows not too far from my home. Bayou Festival in Houston was good for me and Oklahoma City has been a decent show. War Eagle, Arkansas has been one of my best and Omaha was good. Ironically, I received more follow-up orders from Omaha than I sold at the show. That fact in itself would have made it a good show had I not sold anything. However, I haven't found enough to fill a reasonable schedule and, I have to admit that I do catch that "hitting the road" bug now and then.
But, I'd like to think I'm prudent enough to not yield to going simply to be getting out of town. Plus, from a financial standpoint, that sort of behavior would last only a very short time. As you well know, participating in two major & expensive shows half way across the country can get pretty costly and, if you don't have fairly decent sales, you won't do it very many times. At least I won't! I suppose one who may be doing it simply for fun and not concerned about the money could do it indefinitely but, unfortunately, I don't fall in that category.
Yes, I did go to Ann Arbor and my sales there were around six times what they had been in PA in spite of the "lovely" Michigan weather. However, they weren't what I would like to have had to cover the entire trip and make up for the loss in PA.
I'm not blind to the fact that my work is never going to sell like jewelry and a few other items but I have had enough success with it that I feel it's a viable product and I enjoy the work. But, there is no question that it will never appeal to the masses like a few other things and I accept that. And, I've been fortunate to have developed a small following of strangers in different locations so that I continue to get orders long after a show has ended.
I do try and follow your advice of asking on this site and I've received some valuable information and advice. But, I don't recall ever asking about CPFA and perhaps if I had things would have been different. My greatest handicap probably lies in the following.
It doesn't seem economically feasable (even if it were possible) to go around the country doing all the shows one can in order to see which ones are good and which ones aren't so that a future schedule can be generated. And, for a particular show, so many other factors come into play such as current economic conditions, weather, etc. The bottom line is that after all this time I think I'm still wandering blind in trying to determine which shows I should go for and which ones I should leave alone. This goes to Larry's comment about being too traditional and I think he's probably right on the money. In addition to asking (as you mentioned), studying all I can about a show, looking at rankings, etc., etc., I'd like to come up with some additional tools to help make the decision. And I know that I have neglected things that would fall under the area of Larry's comment. I've got to het a better handle on that.
One final comment. I noticed, in Sunshine Artist's Audit Report that the Frankfort Fall Festival in Frankfort, IL had had a consistently high ranking (on the craft side) for the past five years. CPFA had a similar high ranking on the arts side. Considering that other factors can come into play, is it obvious that I should choose Frankfort over PA if I had my choice? And, I'm using these two shows as examples. It's the idea of the ranking in the different categories that I'm referring to. Larry, I suppose this question would be more for you since you've seen what I do.
I suppose none of us has a crystal ball to answer all these questions and if we did we'd probably be very wealthly. However, I simply have to find a better way of making the decision as to which shows I should be going for.
Sorry to hear about State College. I guess your work is too traditional for that show.
Larry Berman
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100
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