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  Ann Marie Crosmun October 14, 2011 at 1:25pm

  Well, one solution I have found, with a couple of shows, is that they have a floor limit. For instance; in the jewelry catagory, nothing under $35. That helps weed out a lot of hobbyists in the earring group. But, it doesn't help in the necklace and bracelet arenas. Also, the 2 for 1 signs, the buy one, get one free, etc., you get the idea. If we could get every 'professional' show to actually enforce (did I spell that right?) signage and pricing, maybe we could begin to 'up' the quality of our shows?

  And the 'direct supervision' clause---that's a 'cottage' industry that I can't compete against. I know of one, he's a fantastic artist, but, and been advised by him, that I should hire out some of my weaving/stitching that it is too labor intensive, but, (and here's my big argument), if I don't do ALL of the work, it's not mine-then, how do I justify getting into the better shows-especially if someone else is doing the 'workhorse' of the creation? whoops, soapbox, sorry. I just feel that my work should be just that-my work. 

  Oh, and, at the beginning of your post, about the jurors----well, I've run into a lot of bias against weaving (oh it's just beads). And, worst of all, those that think that PMC (precious metal clay) work is not true metalsmithing, it's only a hobby, not to be taken seriously. Tell that to Tim McCreight (one of the leading metalsmiths, authors, teachers, and community leader in the field of silversmithing and PMC), Celie Fago, CeCe Wire, Barbara Becker-Simon, Linda Kay Moses, Holly Gage, etc......whoops, soapbox again...I'd better go eat lunch and pack up for our next show this weekend  ;-)
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  Ron Mellott October 14, 2011 at 12:42pm

  Ann Marie:  

  Much of that discussion on "beaders" probably needs to also occur with your fellow artists that do precious stones and metal, for many of them are opposed to "beaders", and some end up as jurors.  Not saying they are right, just that it is.  And when they sit on a jury, it seems potentially to be a definite and serious bias they will impose  --  unless of course the promoter has written in their rules words to the effect of "beaders need not apply".  Because such an indictment of a type/style of art is not at the discretion of jurors to make, correct?  Again, unless stated in the rules.  Don't you think in 'fairness' show promoters show be aware of this issue (among many) in selecting jurors?  An issue for the concept of "peer jurors".  That a promoter be certain to instruct their jurors NOT to in any way bias against work their rules allow?  Be there during the jury process to ensure this is the case?  And review jury results to further ensure this is/was not done?   Otherwise the promoter is encouraging "beaders" to apply when in reality, they stand little or no chance of getting in.  These types of biases just should NOT exist - totally unlevels the playing field and affects us financially, not just in paying a jury fee and not being fairly juried, but also not having the chance to exhibit in front of that audience of people/patrons, which if it would be a good show for the artist, means you have what they want to buy. That is show management by promoters, which we pay for in our jury fees, isn't it?  

  
  You hit on another major topic, at least to me, and that is "hobbyist".  I don't wish to sound anti-hobbyist, though I feel many will jump on this and accuse me of just that.  But there are issues with those who approach this as a hobby versus those who do this for their full-time living.  It is often a completely different financial perspective.  The views you so nicely state are not in any way restricted to jewelry.  Hobbyist often, typically, perhaps most of the time are not living off their income as a 'professional' full-time artist does.  Therefore they can and often do price well below what 'market value' is, determined by what other artists sell their work for, because as you point out, they need only recover costs plus whatever profit they can and they are happy.  Underpricing at shows is an issue, as a photographer I see it constantly, especially in Florida but it also happens up north.  That said, underpricing is not solely an issue with hobbyists or all hobbyists.  Anyone having their work produced outside the U.S. (e.g., Mexico, China, Indonesia, etc.) often are at issue because the work is produced so cheaply, it can be sold cheaply.  It is purely "product" at that point.  The concept of "art", creativity, vision, etc. are out the window.  The phrasing "hey man, I'm just trying to make a living" is constantly uttered.  In those cases though, it is also a violation of the "made by the artist or under their direct supervision" clause in the rules/policies/contract with the show.  

   

  So how do we encourage shows to operate differently?  If we keep scratching off shows that don't do this, we're going to quickly run out of shows ........ 
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  Ann Marie Crosmun October 14, 2011 at 12:21pm

  I am sure that Terry is upset about; what we jewellers refer to, as 'beads on a string'. Keep in mind that there are four types of 'beaders'. 1) The hobbyist who buys their beads at the box store and just strings them together. 2) The crafter who artistically combines the beads so that the necklace makes a statement. 3) The artisan who weaves intricate patterns with their carefully purchased or self created beads. 4) The artist who just takes beads to the next level and thinks outside the box with their creations.

  The hobbyist will always upset any of the other 3 because they price their work in a way that they are getting only the money that they spent on the beads, back. They belong at a 'loving hands' craft show. And, from what I've seen on this forum, no one in the jewellery group is a hobbyist. All of the participants, I consider, to be wonderful in their particular area.

  I am not offended by anyone's comments. I just wanted to point out the diffent levels of 'beaders'. ;-)
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  Paul Flack October 14, 2011 at 11:37am

  Artisphere uses other criteria, however, booth activity eyed at the big shows they are trying to imitate, i.e. Ann Arbor is a factor. I just wish they would let the applicants know about it, because these practices and grandfathering really narrow the field and it would help us to invest our inquiries better.
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  Terry Corcoran October 14, 2011 at 9:53am

  I would imagine the shows that invite artists based on number of people in the booth, as one person suggested Artisphere does, would not be considered a "professional show" as per Munks definition. If we could please have more shows with quality work. It has recently been discussed that the sponsors with their financial support of the shows have more influence toward the mediocre popular items than the jury. What the sponsors want they get.... more beads, more fake folk art, more cheap reproductions, lets not forget the face painter.... The promoter is following the money. Econ. 101
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  Ron Mellott October 13, 2011 at 1:44pm

  Good points Terry.  

  I would ask though, on your second point of crowded booths (FYI: I do not subscribe to the concept that a crowded booth = strong sales, merely that they are interested in what they see and that is not reason of itself to be in an art show) ..... the examples you brought up of what might be in a crowded booth (i.e.," 2x4 wooden robots, beaded jewelry, and clever photographs of the alphabet") .... do these even belong in this discussion?  Is this not a function of what the jury let in (jury dysfunction) and what the promoter, on reviewing their rules and what their jurors juried in, and checking during setup to ensure all was kosher - the issue that all that being done (which it obviously wasn't all done), the promoter allowed the work to be present in their show? Is this not an example of promoter/show dysfunction?  Is that not where this discussion and issue should reside?  Is a promoter truly doing their job (goes to the issue of "professional shows" so eloquently raised by Munks) .... professionally ...... to allow all this to happen?  Is this not part of what we are paying for with our fees, in particular our jury fees, to ensure this kind of situation does not become a topic of discussion on a thread on a website like this?  Where is the promoter in all this?
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  Terry Corcoran October 13, 2011 at 1:25pm

  I was just pointing out the "Statement" for some of us leaves us feeling a little understated. I think it is totally necessary for the "what am I looking at" item. They do have the slides. Slides or rather digital images as they are currently required at least present a level field of sorts. Anyone can take a course or read the information Larry has posted and tweek their own. If it's too far off from the original it will get noticed. 

   

  As far as choosing exhibitors by how crowded their booth is... sounds like a recipe for mediocre. Shows filled with 2x4 wooden robots, beaded jewelry and clever photographs of the alphabet. 

   

  I did hear, the session with the lawyer about copyright law was worth the price of admission, from several people. Too bad the people who need that info are the least likely to avail themselves. 
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  Ron Mellott October 13, 2011 at 1:20pm

  Ann Marie:  But reread what you wrote - it seems the cart is being put in front of the horse.

  You got INTO the show without knowing how your candy cane reindeers would sell, correct?  And bottom line here is the show jurors assumingly let you in (or maybe you had a connection with the promoter where they just let you in).  Either way, they let your work in.  They deemed it "acceptable", maybe "creative", also maybe "unique", worthy, fantastic, amazing, gorgeous .... whatever modifiers you wish to attach.

  THEN you sold well!!!  Maybe price point helped a lot.  Again, being in the show was a decision the show made.  If they did onsite jurying and were to say "OMG, what did our jurors do????" and decided your work was NOT what they wanted in their show, they could just jury you out, regardless of sales.  Being amidst the top sellers isn't a cast-in-stone reinvite if other aspects aren't considered right.

  All that aside, the point is your work did sell well to the people who came to the event.  So if the show was okay with your work as you did it, AND your price point, although possibly underselling everyone else at the show doing anything similar, AND they still would be fine with your work back.  So .... then ..... why not?  Why should they ignore what the public THEY brought to the event liked and wanted to buy?  It is not like you bypassed the jury process!  Not like you just showed up and purchased a booth on a first-come basis, is it?

  Again, what I think gets lost in this is the following.  The show writes rules about what is NOT acceptable: buy-sell, mass-produced products, sometimes designed-by items where the "designer" is not present, items made by molds, etc. etc. etc.  Their choice.  They also perhaps write rules about the work in the jury slides representing the work to be show.  Again, their rules, what they put in and how they word them.  Then when the artists show up and set up, they have a chance go to around and confirm what you are showing is what you juried with, and that your booth looks like it looked in the jury slides.  

  At that point, if that is done (typically, not but should be) .... then you are good to go. So jurors said "yes", promoter checks and says "yes" and then you are at the public's mercy.  And if they say "yes' as demonstrated by you have amongst the top sales in your category - again, why would the promoter/director/show/event not want you and your work back?  They brought you, they brought your buyers, it worked well - what is wrong with that scenario?  Your ability to sell is greatly determined by who they bring to the event based on their advertising and promotion - so - if they did well, why not bring you back?

  I must be under the influence of last night's margaritas .... it seems to stunningly clear and logical to me.  Gotta be those margaritas ........ I gotta start laying off those things ......
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  Ron Mellott October 13, 2011 at 1:06pm

  Paul:  Oklahoma City has sales booth.  You write the sale up, they do all the transactions, collect and report all the sales tax, take the checks, take the credit card transactions (and pay all the fees).  If an artist chooses to work with a customer to bypass the system ("Hey, listen, I'll bring this by tonight and you can pay me then") of course the show doesn't know.  But if that means the artist doesn't get reinvited because their sales weren't high enough to place, in their case, in the top 50% - then the artist shot themselves in the head and they are an idiot.  No loss.
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  Ann Marie Crosmun October 13, 2011 at 12:45pm

  Oh Paul-get thee behind me satan   ;-0