OK OK, I realize this question has been asked before in this and other forums (such as http://photo.net/business-photography-forum/00UR1f ) but this is the type of question, for me, that should always be open to discussion and input by new and old members. Besides, call me anal, but I like to research and plan every detail out and truly respect the great opinions I have received from this forum. I am definitely open to learning new ideas/methods and I am sure newbies in the future would find this thread helpful. So, here it goes:
I have plenty of experience doing juried shows for my metal art/sculptures. But, this will be my first major juried show that IU will do for my PHOTOGRAPHY.
(1) How many individual photos do you bring to a regular 10' x 10' canopy setup? Personally, I plan to bring ten to twelve individual prints to each show (Perhaps 8 standard 3:2 and 2 to 4 Panoramic). I chose up to 12 photos that I feel will do best in the particular town/market. However, I am about to show at one of the biggest attendance shows I have ever done (I realize attendance/crowds does not necessarily equate to buyers/sales but I am hopeful). What's your opinion on my method and how many photos do you bring and why?
(2) What sizes do you bring for each print, what sizes and how many of each size? I plan to bring the following print sizes of EACH individual print (each are matted and bagged BUT the sizes I indicate do NOT include matting size, just actual print size). Let me know what you think about these numbers and please add your input on what you do and why.
* 30 of 4"x6" (sold bagged with economic cardboard backing but not matted)
* 20 of 8"x12"
* 15 of 12"x18"
* 5 of 16"x24" (sold dry mounted and bagged but no matting)
For Panoramic I bring:
* 10 of 8"x24"
* 5 of 12"x36"
and
* 10 of 5"x10"
* 5 of 10"x20"
(3) What FRAMED prints do you bring? I plan to have one large framed print (24"x36" or large panoramic) of at least eight prints for show. I also plan to have maybe three 12x18s of each framed. There will also be perhaps 6 8x12 of each in a small, economical, frame for those looking to buy but on a budget.
So, what do you think. All opinions on numbers, sizes and method are welcome. Please be as constructive and brutal as you please :-) ... I am here to learn from your experience.
Thank you
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For what it's worth - I think you are right. Your plate creates an original each time you create an impression because of the changes made to the plate with each impression (however subtle) as well as changes in color, pressure, and number in the series. The difference is the size of the final composition. You will have a tough sell with me if you want to insist that you can create a wide range of sizes or even two different sizes of identical images from your single plate. Also, if you send a .jpg of your plate to some printing outfit on the internet or in your hometown and order different sizes (whether dry mounted, bagged, unbagged, or matted, or wrapped in a rubber band - then sorry, they are not originals.
Am I "against" photography? Absolutely not. I simply would like for people to understand what is an original and what is a copy. Technology can be a good thing. Look what they tried to do to Dylan when he plugged his guitar into an amplifier . . . the folk music purists were aghast and they even tried to cut his electrical cord. I'm glad he upgraded, but I also understand that if I buy one of his live records - it is a recording, a copy of a live event - I'm not buying the live event itself.
To illustrate my point: One of my favorite things to watch at the shows is the middle aged guy in an oxford shirt and penny loafers decked out in pleated short pants with the sansabelt (sp?) waist and no socks musing in front of a photograph of some misty mountain thing by some Ansel Adams wannabe while his latest trophy wife (or niece) hangs on his shoulder and swings her diamond earrings back so she can hear the photographer (or his representative) tell them it is an "original" photograph and they both nod in agreement before they pay an incredible markup on the cost of the photographer having the printer print, package and mail the print back to the photographer. The icing on the cake is when another "original photograph" comes out from the back of the booth even before Dr. Penny Loafers and his "niece" turn the corner with the identical "original photograph" in a different (or same) size down the aisle. Gotta love it!
Sara Youngman said:
As a printmaker I have to throw my two cents in here. My prints are all originals, all printed by me using my printing press. This argument seems to be saying that only my plate is an original and all the prints nothing more than copies.
Re: giclee prints - I find them appalling, especially the ones with dabs of paint to make them 'unique'.
Munks said:
Please see this article entitled "Using French Makes You Sound Fancy" it discusses how it was an invented term for the most part.
Getting back on topic Hugo.... I did a small one day event today and made a point to count what I actually took today.
(9) large framed items - 18x24 matted size
(4) large canvas items - 36 x numerous sizes - some panoramic
(8) smaller framed items - 11x14 & 16x20 matted sizes
(36) matted only 18x24
(50) matted only 16x20
(33) matted only 11x14
Mine are all double matted and other than when the show does better with the 8x10's (note below), the two larger sizes sell the best.
Since this was a quick little show, I did not take along replacements (xtras). Typically I will do a run of weekend events out of state without returning home and I pack heavy for those. Also, if it is a two or three day show I will likely increase those amounts by 3 or more but those additional amounts stay in my storage area or in the trailer. Some shows that I know well where I have experienced the 8x10 sells well, especially in this economy so I will include that size and fill my propanel bin that holds about 80. Seems like I alter the amounts depending on the show location and size of booth I have for that show AND if I have a corner location.
Hope that helps. Not sure what others do, but that worked for me today.
Have a great Fall!
Hmmm.... a little self serving Larry? Mike D is the only jerk among us and we pretty much ignore his worthless input.
Hugo, you've been here long enough to know the photographer group here is always helpful.
I typically have as many framed pieces as looks good on my panels. I have panels that are 3' wide and will place one 18x24 framed piece on the top and one 18x24 underneath it. Sometimes I will add two smaller framed pieces under that. I tend to give my larger items their own top section of the panel, then a horizontal wider piece on the bottom of that panel. I use one of the panels for the smaller framed pieces, but space appropriately so they do not look cramped.
Matted work - I use 3 double decker print bins always and sometimes, space allowed use a fourth. Each bin holds approximately 35 to 50 matted items comfortably. When (I don't always include) I bring along the 8x10 size, I use a propanel print bin that holds approximately 80 of that size.
The main focus is to use the amount that comfortably fits within your booth space. Try different arrangements, then step back and take a look. You want the customer flow to work well within the booth and offer an inviting presentation.
"Hmmm.... a little self serving Larry? Mike D is the only jerk among us and we pretty much ignore his worthless input."
Wow.
I know I will be accused of being MikeD (I am not MikeD) - but is this stuff really necessary?
I have a serious question: How can the ordering of photographic prints on the internet or Sam's Club and selling them at art fairs individually be called "original" or "handmade"?
I am a painter. I sell very well at the shows I do. I enjoy painting, doing shows, visiting with patrons and other artists. I own a gallery, I sell others people's work at my gallery during the winter months except when I go down to Florida. I don't complain about shows. I do occasionally complain about some non-customers, but I am learning.
The level of arrogance exhibited here when someone disagrees with someone else's pontification is astounding and embarrassing. I don't get a chance to come in here and bitch as much as some other folks in here primarily because I am busy working instead of saving the art world. But, I am wondering if someone can intelligently answer the above question - and/or - can someone explain why there is so much venom expressed when someone simply disagrees?
I can only answer for myself Munks..... I would never have my images printed by anyone other than me. I use (4) top end Epson printers for my work - each specifically used for individual tasks. My position is I am in complete control of the output of my images (perhaps that is why they sell well). I also do not alter in Photoshop other than crop or adjust lighting. I'm fairly sure most of the long time photographers on this site do the same. There are many newbies that have not yet been able to afford the $50,000+ expenditure on top end printers, cameras, lenses, mat cutters, framing materials, show equipment (panels, tents, lights, etc) and the everyday materials like expensive inks, top end papers, mats, backings, bags etc. I believe most of the really good ones will eventually work up to that but for now are eager to find out IF they can sell their images. The show process is a tough one to survive on. I'm sure many will drop that dream before they invest heavily on the equipment it takes to produce a truely "handmade" product
I believe the entire group has been plagued with MikeD's nastiness. There has not been one discussion thread that he has not made degoratory comments for the sake of just pure lashing out his obvious anger with photographic artists. You've been a short time member here and your intial signup was encouraged by Mike. I hope you will not carry the same purpose of trash just to trash on this site. If you watch for a bit or review the archives, you will surely find that there are plenty of disagreements here..... but they are presented in a manner to allow further discussion, solve an issue or find a common ground. In general there is minimal arrogance - mostly artists helping or encouraging other artists, regardless of the medium. I'm sure if you check the responses of MikeD, you too will see the anger for anger's sake in his presentations. It has not been a case of simple disagreements as most of us on this site have. He has contributed nothing but anger.
I appreciate your non aggressive presentation of the "Sams Club" question and hope you will find this group to be not quite as arrogant as you presently believe.
My initial sign-up was encouraged by you and another person who attacked MikeD when he voiced his opinion. I do not know MikeD, but I felt he was and is being unfairly treated. You called him a "jerk" on this forum - that is a fact. He might be one, but I am sure calling him one constitutes something more than "minimal arrogance" doesn't it? In fact, he never called anyone - not even you - such a term that I am aware of. His writing was in regard to his views of events in the art world. Yours was your opinion of him. There's a pretty big difference there regarding contributions of anger. Hmmm?
I will continue to check in from time to time to see what's going on, but I will no longer contribute to a site that deletes one member for voicing his own unpopular opinion and keeps another who personally insults another artist. I have better things to do in the art world than provide entertainment for the "in" crowd - I did enough of that in high school. When I see that you have ap0logized to MikeD for calling him an insulting name in a public forum and he is allowed to return - then I will gladly join an obviously mature and professional group. Buh-bye!
Hi Munks
I've been a member for awhile now and enjoy almost all of the things that go on on this site. I think the problem that occurs in some of the forum discussions is because some of the opinions expressed take the course of the whole talk off track. Like the spelling and pronunciation bull. JUST LIKE NOW!
I think that people with strong opinions like MikeD should post them as Forum Topics and then express himself and let others express themselves in a civilized manor talking about the subject posted. Stick around. I almost quit because of some comments about my spelling with a reference to my age. But I'm back and now check my spelling constantly - thanks Nels.
[chewing on my pumpkin pie and nodding my head knowingly as a I walk away from the conversation]
Hugo Cruz > Linda AndersonOctober 21, 2009 at 11:39am
Just to add ... This forum has been fantastic. Overall it has been a great experience. Yes, there are the occasional annoying people. But, what venue does not have the occasional nuisance? Even Family Thanksgiving dinners have the known nonsensical inane jerks to ignore ... Just take another bite of that pumpkin pie, nod your head knowingly and slowly walk away to a better crowd :-)
Many people take this question too personally. But, I think the answer is quite simple.
Regarding "Original": The photographic image is "original" as in unique perspective / new / fresh / inventive image. For the most part, there is absolutely NOTHING original about the print (the physical paper/photographic print). Just as there is nothing original about a GICLEE canvas print or limited edition print (not even the Giclees that are "painted" over with a few strokes can be considered "original" in my humble opinion . When photographers or painters/artists that sell prints refer to "Original" they are (or should be) referring to their unique perspective (the art) not the tangible product itself.
Regarding "handmade/by hand": I don't know why artists bother using a term that is usually reserved for crafts. Any painter, sculptor, fine artist should not use the term handmade because, for one, it is redundant/common sense, and secondly, it does not do service to the work. So, I am not sure what artist or media you are referring to ... But for those whom do use the term, unless one is a screen printer OR develops his/her own prints in their own studio lab then, I agree -- a Photographer should never use the term handmade. But, as I said before, no self-respecting photographer would ever use the term handmade to describe his/her work.
Hope this helps.
By the way, why did you post this unrelated question in my thread (not that I mind). It would have served you better to post it as a new discussion.
Replies
For what it's worth - I think you are right. Your plate creates an original each time you create an impression because of the changes made to the plate with each impression (however subtle) as well as changes in color, pressure, and number in the series. The difference is the size of the final composition. You will have a tough sell with me if you want to insist that you can create a wide range of sizes or even two different sizes of identical images from your single plate. Also, if you send a .jpg of your plate to some printing outfit on the internet or in your hometown and order different sizes (whether dry mounted, bagged, unbagged, or matted, or wrapped in a rubber band - then sorry, they are not originals.
Am I "against" photography? Absolutely not. I simply would like for people to understand what is an original and what is a copy. Technology can be a good thing. Look what they tried to do to Dylan when he plugged his guitar into an amplifier . . . the folk music purists were aghast and they even tried to cut his electrical cord. I'm glad he upgraded, but I also understand that if I buy one of his live records - it is a recording, a copy of a live event - I'm not buying the live event itself.
To illustrate my point: One of my favorite things to watch at the shows is the middle aged guy in an oxford shirt and penny loafers decked out in pleated short pants with the sansabelt (sp?) waist and no socks musing in front of a photograph of some misty mountain thing by some Ansel Adams wannabe while his latest trophy wife (or niece) hangs on his shoulder and swings her diamond earrings back so she can hear the photographer (or his representative) tell them it is an "original" photograph and they both nod in agreement before they pay an incredible markup on the cost of the photographer having the printer print, package and mail the print back to the photographer. The icing on the cake is when another "original photograph" comes out from the back of the booth even before Dr. Penny Loafers and his "niece" turn the corner with the identical "original photograph" in a different (or same) size down the aisle. Gotta love it!
Sara Youngman said:
(9) large framed items - 18x24 matted size
(4) large canvas items - 36 x numerous sizes - some panoramic
(8) smaller framed items - 11x14 & 16x20 matted sizes
(36) matted only 18x24
(50) matted only 16x20
(33) matted only 11x14
Mine are all double matted and other than when the show does better with the 8x10's (note below), the two larger sizes sell the best.
Since this was a quick little show, I did not take along replacements (xtras). Typically I will do a run of weekend events out of state without returning home and I pack heavy for those. Also, if it is a two or three day show I will likely increase those amounts by 3 or more but those additional amounts stay in my storage area or in the trailer. Some shows that I know well where I have experienced the 8x10 sells well, especially in this economy so I will include that size and fill my propanel bin that holds about 80. Seems like I alter the amounts depending on the show location and size of booth I have for that show AND if I have a corner location.
Hope that helps. Not sure what others do, but that worked for me today.
Have a great Fall!
Hugo, you've been here long enough to know the photographer group here is always helpful.
I typically have as many framed pieces as looks good on my panels. I have panels that are 3' wide and will place one 18x24 framed piece on the top and one 18x24 underneath it. Sometimes I will add two smaller framed pieces under that. I tend to give my larger items their own top section of the panel, then a horizontal wider piece on the bottom of that panel. I use one of the panels for the smaller framed pieces, but space appropriately so they do not look cramped.
Matted work - I use 3 double decker print bins always and sometimes, space allowed use a fourth. Each bin holds approximately 35 to 50 matted items comfortably. When (I don't always include) I bring along the 8x10 size, I use a propanel print bin that holds approximately 80 of that size.
The main focus is to use the amount that comfortably fits within your booth space. Try different arrangements, then step back and take a look. You want the customer flow to work well within the booth and offer an inviting presentation.
Wow.
I know I will be accused of being MikeD (I am not MikeD) - but is this stuff really necessary?
I have a serious question: How can the ordering of photographic prints on the internet or Sam's Club and selling them at art fairs individually be called "original" or "handmade"?
I am a painter. I sell very well at the shows I do. I enjoy painting, doing shows, visiting with patrons and other artists. I own a gallery, I sell others people's work at my gallery during the winter months except when I go down to Florida. I don't complain about shows. I do occasionally complain about some non-customers, but I am learning.
The level of arrogance exhibited here when someone disagrees with someone else's pontification is astounding and embarrassing. I don't get a chance to come in here and bitch as much as some other folks in here primarily because I am busy working instead of saving the art world. But, I am wondering if someone can intelligently answer the above question - and/or - can someone explain why there is so much venom expressed when someone simply disagrees?
I believe the entire group has been plagued with MikeD's nastiness. There has not been one discussion thread that he has not made degoratory comments for the sake of just pure lashing out his obvious anger with photographic artists. You've been a short time member here and your intial signup was encouraged by Mike. I hope you will not carry the same purpose of trash just to trash on this site. If you watch for a bit or review the archives, you will surely find that there are plenty of disagreements here..... but they are presented in a manner to allow further discussion, solve an issue or find a common ground. In general there is minimal arrogance - mostly artists helping or encouraging other artists, regardless of the medium. I'm sure if you check the responses of MikeD, you too will see the anger for anger's sake in his presentations. It has not been a case of simple disagreements as most of us on this site have. He has contributed nothing but anger.
I appreciate your non aggressive presentation of the "Sams Club" question and hope you will find this group to be not quite as arrogant as you presently believe.
I will continue to check in from time to time to see what's going on, but I will no longer contribute to a site that deletes one member for voicing his own unpopular opinion and keeps another who personally insults another artist. I have better things to do in the art world than provide entertainment for the "in" crowd - I did enough of that in high school. When I see that you have ap0logized to MikeD for calling him an insulting name in a public forum and he is allowed to return - then I will gladly join an obviously mature and professional group. Buh-bye!
I've been a member for awhile now and enjoy almost all of the things that go on on this site. I think the problem that occurs in some of the forum discussions is because some of the opinions expressed take the course of the whole talk off track. Like the spelling and pronunciation bull. JUST LIKE NOW!
I think that people with strong opinions like MikeD should post them as Forum Topics and then express himself and let others express themselves in a civilized manor talking about the subject posted. Stick around. I almost quit because of some comments about my spelling with a reference to my age. But I'm back and now check my spelling constantly - thanks Nels.
Many people take this question too personally. But, I think the answer is quite simple.
Regarding "Original": The photographic image is "original" as in unique perspective / new / fresh / inventive image. For the most part, there is absolutely NOTHING original about the print (the physical paper/photographic print). Just as there is nothing original about a GICLEE canvas print or limited edition print (not even the Giclees that are "painted" over with a few strokes can be considered "original" in my humble opinion . When photographers or painters/artists that sell prints refer to "Original" they are (or should be) referring to their unique perspective (the art) not the tangible product itself.
Regarding "handmade/by hand": I don't know why artists bother using a term that is usually reserved for crafts. Any painter, sculptor, fine artist should not use the term handmade because, for one, it is redundant/common sense, and secondly, it does not do service to the work. So, I am not sure what artist or media you are referring to ... But for those whom do use the term, unless one is a screen printer OR develops his/her own prints in their own studio lab then, I agree -- a Photographer should never use the term handmade. But, as I said before, no self-respecting photographer would ever use the term handmade to describe his/her work.
Hope this helps.
By the way, why did you post this unrelated question in my thread (not that I mind). It would have served you better to post it as a new discussion.
Hugo Cruz
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