Several lines of discussion going on here that I'd like to chime in on. I'm an Atlanta, GA based photographer that does both the art festival gig part-time and architectural photography part-time. Combining the two, I started to offer professional booth photography (at a very reasonable price) for festival artists in the metro Atlanta area. By now, everyone should be aware of how important the booth photo has become and spending a few $ to make it as professional as possible is well worth it - getting into even one additional show more than covers the expense.
As Larry said, we have no control over what the image looks like on someone else's computer but if the booth photo you submit is technically good (composition, lighting, contrast, color, etc - the same things that make up any quality photograph) and the booth setup is clean and neat, then I think most of the time you should be fine. Even if the monitors the judges are using to view submittals are not color calibrated (and most likely they aren't), unless the monitors are way out of wack an image that was shot and processed correctly on a calibrated monitor and converted to sRGB should look pretty close when viewed by the judges - at least close enough that it shouldn't be something to worry about.
Don Mabry > Barry VangrovNovember 23, 2010 at 5:42pm
Barry,
Thank you. It's nice to get additional input on this subject. Wish I knew as much about this as you guys know. But, I suppose, if I did, I'd be a photographer instead of whatever it is that I am!
The answer is that the only images you have control over are the one's you prepare or have prepared. You have absolutely no control over how they look on someone else's computer. But if your monitor is calibrated to a known standard, anyone viewing your images on a calibrated system will see something similar to what you are seeing. Other factors are ambient light in the room where the monitor is. The proper way to view images on a monitor is to set the color temperature of the monitor to 6500K (or D65) which is the default color temperature for the sRGB color space and then calibrate it using a combination of a hardware device with it's included software. That way you know exactly what your images will look like if they are viewed properly.
It's no different than when you used to submit 35mm slides. The only control you had then was how the photographs were taken. Whether they were properly exposed and in focus and whether you had the piece isolated from the background properly. But you had no control over the way they were viewed because you didn't know how much ambient light there was in the jury room or what the age of the projection bulb was. 35mm slide projector bulbs were yellow and got more yellow as they aged. The viewable life of a monitor is years and the color temperature of of a digital projector bulb is daylight and lasts for hundreds of hours and only changes temperature before it dies. And digital projectors have a built in meter telling you approximately how many hours the bulb has been used. In fact, I'm still using the same bulb in my digital projector that came with it six years ago because I only use it a couple of times a year when I do workshops.
My system consists of dual monitors, only one is calibrated and it's the only one I view the images on. It's a Sony Artisan which came with it's own calibration device and it forces me to calibrate every 30 days. The monitor is neutral gray and has it's own hood (like a lens hood) to prevent ambient light from hitting the screen. I have the windows blacked out and use track lights in my office. Two sets of lights on two switches, one set pointed behind the monitors so they don't effect what I see and the other for everything else I do in the room when I'm not working on images.
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In response to Don's blog post:
It's a well-accepted fact that different monitors, projectors, etc. can project images differently - from very slight differences to, perhaps, significant ones. My question is, how can one tell that the images one submits to ZAPP (or anyone else) are going to look like the images they saw on their own computer before submission? I've submitted images that look perfectly fine on my computer but I don't have a clue what the jury is seeing - whether it's the same or vastly different in some respect.
If I were answering this question, my immediate response would be, "Send them to Larry and forget about it" - because you know they'll be "right". But, sometimes, due to time constraints, etc., it might not be possible to send to Larry. In those cases I'd like to think the jury is seeing something pretty close to what I saw when I submitted the image.
Or, am I being paranoid for no reason? Is there likely to be enough of a difference to be concerned? If the lighting, composition, etc. looks great on my system, can I assume it will look great on theirs? And, of course I realize that what looks great to me will not necessarily look great to anyone else. But, I'm speaking strictly of 'technical' issues - not artistic interpretation.
Melanie Rolfes > Larry BermanNovember 23, 2010 at 11:53am
Larry makes a good point witht the projectors. When I was at Artisphere jury, there were 5 different pics being projected. The first 4 all had the same coloring and brightness level. The last one, the booth shot had different lighting, darker and not as bright.
Don Mabry > Melanie RolfesNovember 23, 2010 at 5:45pm
Melanie,
Thanks for the info. Do you think these were photos taken and submitted by the artist and he just didn't get his lighting right on #5? Or, do you suspect the problem was with the equipment the jury was using?
I saw your other post on the blog, so I am guessing it is on the same subject. IMO don't wait.
Get Larry to do you pics so there is not an issue. I was able to attend an open jury and it was a real eye opener. However the way this jury projected their images was not the same as everyone else. We as artist really need to try and get an answer from the shows on how they are going to view our slides. Even with Zapp, there are many different options. I recently had Larry do my booth and some of my pics. Hands down my booth was WAY better once I got him involved. I was to close to the work to figure it out. With my pics vs the ones he fixed, I didn't see a big difference until I put them side by side. Of course Larry's kicked my pics hinny. I am a painter, not a photographer. After seeing an open projected jury in person I realize the importance on what I thought were little things. We already "donate" jury fees , why not put a little money to get a professional to help us with our application pics. I do keep track of how I applied to each show, including what images I sent. It is really overwhelming when you consider all the other things we need to do with this business.
Tonight I am struggling with a supplier. Just another part of the business that is taking away from my creative side. Anyone have a reliable canvas strecher in ATL for large scale pieces? Mine left me high and dry after he received his $$$$ and I have a phot shoot with AD magazine scheduled for this Saturday. agh!!!!
Don Mabry > Melanie RolfesNovember 23, 2010 at 10:41am
Hi Melanie,
Thanks for your input. I know you are correct in your comments re Larry. I've worked with him before and there is a vast difference between doing it myself and having it done by someone who knows what they're doing. Of course, when I'm not accepted to a show I can always blame it on my photos as opposed to my lack of talent! Soothes the ego a bit!
Wish I could help you with the canvas stretcher but, unfortunately, I know nothing about that either. When I stop to think about it, it's amazing how many things there are that I know absolutely nothing about!
Good luck. And good luck with the photo shoot.
Thanks for your input.
Don
Replies
As Larry said, we have no control over what the image looks like on someone else's computer but if the booth photo you submit is technically good (composition, lighting, contrast, color, etc - the same things that make up any quality photograph) and the booth setup is clean and neat, then I think most of the time you should be fine. Even if the monitors the judges are using to view submittals are not color calibrated (and most likely they aren't), unless the monitors are way out of wack an image that was shot and processed correctly on a calibrated monitor and converted to sRGB should look pretty close when viewed by the judges - at least close enough that it shouldn't be something to worry about.
Thank you. It's nice to get additional input on this subject. Wish I knew as much about this as you guys know. But, I suppose, if I did, I'd be a photographer instead of whatever it is that I am!
Thanks again.
Don
It's no different than when you used to submit 35mm slides. The only control you had then was how the photographs were taken. Whether they were properly exposed and in focus and whether you had the piece isolated from the background properly. But you had no control over the way they were viewed because you didn't know how much ambient light there was in the jury room or what the age of the projection bulb was. 35mm slide projector bulbs were yellow and got more yellow as they aged. The viewable life of a monitor is years and the color temperature of of a digital projector bulb is daylight and lasts for hundreds of hours and only changes temperature before it dies. And digital projectors have a built in meter telling you approximately how many hours the bulb has been used. In fact, I'm still using the same bulb in my digital projector that came with it six years ago because I only use it a couple of times a year when I do workshops.
My system consists of dual monitors, only one is calibrated and it's the only one I view the images on. It's a Sony Artisan which came with it's own calibration device and it forces me to calibrate every 30 days. The monitor is neutral gray and has it's own hood (like a lens hood) to prevent ambient light from hitting the screen. I have the windows blacked out and use track lights in my office. Two sets of lights on two switches, one set pointed behind the monitors so they don't effect what I see and the other for everything else I do in the room when I'm not working on images.
Larry Berman
Digital Jury Services
http://BermanGraphics.com
412-401-8100
************************************************
In response to Don's blog post:
It's a well-accepted fact that different monitors, projectors, etc. can project images differently - from very slight differences to, perhaps, significant ones. My question is, how can one tell that the images one submits to ZAPP (or anyone else) are going to look like the images they saw on their own computer before submission? I've submitted images that look perfectly fine on my computer but I don't have a clue what the jury is seeing - whether it's the same or vastly different in some respect.
If I were answering this question, my immediate response would be, "Send them to Larry and forget about it" - because you know they'll be "right". But, sometimes, due to time constraints, etc., it might not be possible to send to Larry. In those cases I'd like to think the jury is seeing something pretty close to what I saw when I submitted the image.
Or, am I being paranoid for no reason? Is there likely to be enough of a difference to be concerned? If the lighting, composition, etc. looks great on my system, can I assume it will look great on theirs? And, of course I realize that what looks great to me will not necessarily look great to anyone else. But, I'm speaking strictly of 'technical' issues - not artistic interpretation.
Thanks for the info. Do you think these were photos taken and submitted by the artist and he just didn't get his lighting right on #5? Or, do you suspect the problem was with the equipment the jury was using?
Don
I saw your other post on the blog, so I am guessing it is on the same subject. IMO don't wait.
Get Larry to do you pics so there is not an issue. I was able to attend an open jury and it was a real eye opener. However the way this jury projected their images was not the same as everyone else. We as artist really need to try and get an answer from the shows on how they are going to view our slides. Even with Zapp, there are many different options. I recently had Larry do my booth and some of my pics. Hands down my booth was WAY better once I got him involved. I was to close to the work to figure it out. With my pics vs the ones he fixed, I didn't see a big difference until I put them side by side. Of course Larry's kicked my pics hinny. I am a painter, not a photographer. After seeing an open projected jury in person I realize the importance on what I thought were little things. We already "donate" jury fees , why not put a little money to get a professional to help us with our application pics. I do keep track of how I applied to each show, including what images I sent. It is really overwhelming when you consider all the other things we need to do with this business.
Tonight I am struggling with a supplier. Just another part of the business that is taking away from my creative side. Anyone have a reliable canvas strecher in ATL for large scale pieces? Mine left me high and dry after he received his $$$$ and I have a phot shoot with AD magazine scheduled for this Saturday. agh!!!!
Thanks for your input. I know you are correct in your comments re Larry. I've worked with him before and there is a vast difference between doing it myself and having it done by someone who knows what they're doing. Of course, when I'm not accepted to a show I can always blame it on my photos as opposed to my lack of talent! Soothes the ego a bit!
Wish I could help you with the canvas stretcher but, unfortunately, I know nothing about that either. When I stop to think about it, it's amazing how many things there are that I know absolutely nothing about!
Good luck. And good luck with the photo shoot.
Thanks for your input.
Don