From a promoter’s point of view it’s a great idea with no downside. A host can have an acceptable pool of artists waiting with baited breath for the privilege of a last minute call to pay money for a rushed travel/set up/reservation-less motel weekend with questionable financial results.
As an artist, with one exception, there is no advantage. As the wait-listed artist I’m the high school girl sitting by the phone on prom night. I didn’t make any plans, but I know it’s too late. I bought my dress months ago but didn’t bother with hair or nails since I know in my heart the phone won’t ring. But I wait anyway. And if the call comes then what? I’ll go – I want to go – I have to go (I was invited!!!), but I’m really not ready. It will probably be OK, but I wasn’t the first choice, and I know it. The exception, of course, is that I have the opportunity to show and sell. I did want to attend or I wouldn’t have applied in the first place. Even being the second choice is better than sitting home.
Then there’s the booth fee. What about the artist who was accepted and cancelled? Isn’t the promoter double dipping for that booth fee? Shouldn’t mine be discounted for the late notice? Or at least a partial refund given to the artist who gave notice for the cancellation?
What’s the advantage to canceling? If the payment isn’t refunded even if the booth fee is collected from a waitlisted artist, why give notice at all? It’s not respect for other artists – frankly they’d rather have the empty space to spread out. Unless it’s an emergency keeping me from attending I probably have decided the show isn’t for me so I don’t care about being invited back. Without some incentive I don’t need to cancel – I’ll wait until the last minute and decide whether or not to show up. . . which means some waitlisted artist will receive that magic call at 8:00 Saturday morning . . .
And will be set up by 10:00.
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Easy, guys, really.
Perhaps the issue instead is the practice of artists who apply for three or four shows on the same weekend intending to select their first choice and cancel the rest, thus backing hosts into the waitlist to begin with. And that issue gets worse if the artist feels there's nothing to lose but the application fee as a cost of business. So, cancelation (or not) to a show that was considered a back up plan from the beginning leaves another artist waiting to be invited to the show that was the first choice or only application for the weekend.
As far as booth fee refunds -- bearing in mind that opinions are like elbows -- if the space is filled there shouldn't be double payment. Either refund or don't collect again. Really, how much extra work is it to say "Due to a cancelation/refund request you can set up in 206."
Well, I gave my two cents to the waitlist issue earlier, and just wanted to update those who care about my cancellation issue.
I was not waitlisted to festival international de louisine, as a member of the LA craft guild you are accepted as long as you send in the application on time. They did ask for $ 300 booth fee up front which I did and they alreday cashed before christmas.
This was not a filler show for me, I realy wanted to do it, why else would I let go of that much money.
Fortunately I was accepted into NO Jazzfest, But they scheduled me for the first weekend, ( first May weekend) needless to say same date the festival international. I tried to change to the second weekend without success. Both festivals are a first time for me, but I dont need to travel or book a hotel for jazzfest, plus from all I hear it is the cream of the crop.
I first thought of waiting to cancel fest Inter. until Feb. 25th the deadline to pay for jazzfest just incase there is some movement and I am able to move to the second weekend. But I figured the earlier I cancel The better my chances of getting at least some of my booth fee back. So, I called last week left a message, but never got a call back. I called again this morning and actually got a person on the phone. Very politely I ask to whom I have to speak to in order to cancel the show. The person on the phone got all huffy on me and in a very short manner saying who i think who I am to cancel their show. C MON I did clarify saying that I need to cancel my participation in their show. ( couldnt help but ask her if she got up on the wrong side of bed). She connected me with the show director, who very quickly resided the passage in the application where it states that no refunds will be given for any reason. I did not see that, thats why i had hopes of getting my money back. I mentioned that it is 3 month till the show so plenty of time to fill my slot, she kept saying no refunds, I mentioned fellow craft guild members who where accepted but did nor send in the booth fee check and will not be able to set up either. Why did they get accepted not sending in the $300 since the application was incomplete. I did the right thing and am out that money. Her reply was that they would be having to pay a late fee.
I than did what Larry always preaches, I tried to get the point across, that this may be not the right thing to do, to ask for the booth fee upfront and incase of cancellation not refund it but charge the next person the same amount. Her reply was that they have been doing this since the beginning, but she was sorry, that I dont agree with their practices.
Important to mention is, that I was very nice about it and even ended the conversation with a thank you. I can not say that about the people I spoke to, they were rude and set in their ways no matter what.
OOps I guess in my effort to elegantly write about my happenings it got a little confusing.
Festival International de Louisiane is the one I needed to cancel. Their festival date is the same than NO jazzfest. last weekend of May. NO Jazzfest is last weekend in May and first weekend in April. One can request on the Jazzfest application which weekend is preferred ( I put second) but there is no guarrantee. So, Murphys law I got the first weekend at Jazzfest, after unsuccessfully trying to change to the second jazzfest weekend ( The Jazzfest people are very artis friendly, and actually call back when you leave messages) I called Festival de Louisiane to cancel my spot there.
Sabine,
I posted a piece on my blog here and on wordpress that talks about this kind of stuff. That is your money! It is your ball and they should not have it. Please don't let this stuff get you down, but don't let them get away with it either. They have plenty of time to make adjustments based on your decision as an artist. Apparently you don't live far from them - put some pressure on them. Offer them a small fee for the "trouble" you caused and demand your booth fee back.
Take them to small claims. Sure, you'll probably lose because of the contract - but maybe not. Maybe the judge will side with you. Maybe the show people won't show. Maybe they'll settle before the court date. I think you would agree they should have some $ to cover whatever costs were incurred, but the majority of the booth fee is your money. Even if you lose in small claims - maybe many more people will challenge their archaic thinking and they will wake up and treat you and your peers as professional artists and not some kind of carnie talent for their event. It's your money, your career, and your reputation - not theirs. Stand up to them. You don't need to be nice - just be professional. They have your money - be nice on a date and be professional when you are talking business. Good luck!
That is a good way to look at it. It is your money! I cannot see how a show can justify keeping two fees for one spot. I can understand a minimal fee to cover the "cost" of doing the cancellation. The timing should not matter. The artist will cancel no matter what, but may be more inclined to cancel in a timely manner if they are assured of having their money returned (the earlier the cancellation the better chance of filling the spot.)
As an aside. I would compare this to not buying a house but renting a house. You pay your rent for the house; you pay your rent for the booth space. Some states have laws in place that prohibits a landlord from collecting more than one rent for a rental. In other words, if a renter moves out (cancels the show) the new tenant cannot be charged for a month already paid for.
I don't see waitlists as being a bad thing. I've been accepted, rejected, and waitlisted to shows.
As Michael does, I always email if I can't be at a show, so another artist can take my spot. I wouldn't dream of not doing it, as as courtesy to the show and my fellow artists.
As an art show director, I would never call anyone the day before or on the day to come and do the show. Its just not enough time.
As for double selling the booth. All the shows I do have a refund fee up to a certain day. After that no more refunds are given. I have no problem with that. Why? Because I know how much work is being done by show staff to put on a great show and how large a monkey wrench an artist dropping out at the last minute puts in a show. If shows routinely refund all $ for every artist that dropped out at (no matter how close to the show) it would be chaos for the show & frankly those of us who are on the waitlist. The no refund-after a certain date, is partially there to encourage artists to make up their minds and commit to the show.
And frankly it is GOOD for all of us artists who are doing the show. We want the show staff focused on us...those who made the commitment and the trip, who are wanting to sell lots. We don't want them scrambling around trying to fill empty spots, redoing publications, pulling photos, sorting excel lists, etc. Show staff should be working for the artists who are coming...to make the show the very best possible for them.
Sigh.
I know this isn't going to be a well-received post, perhaps. I suggest personal attacks on me as a show director are counter productive. If artists and show directors are to dialog and understand each other's situations lets please keep it civil.
hth
Carla
a show artist and a show director (non-profit...all volunteer run)
I am between both places on this. When I did shows, I normally canceled shows I could not or did not want to do in a timely manner even if they were so artists un-friendly as to collect more than one fee for the same spot. The amount of work to fill a canceled spot is nearly the same whether they return the fee to the cancellee or not.
That said, I do not see how any show can justify keeping more than one fee for the same booth. It is unethical and unjust and all of those other un-words that describes this show as artist un-friendly. The shows have had years to digest this and respond and yet few have decided to become friendly with their partner - the artist. That is when I would advocate a more guerrilla tactic to wake them up.
Bruce:
If you put down earnest $ on a home and then change your mind, you lose the earnest $. This is the same thing. The booth fee is a commitment to do the show. And most shows have a reasonable time limit that they will return the booth fee if an artist decides not to do the show.
What we are debating is the time between the last refund date and the show dates. That is a time when show staff is working to put on the show, for those artists who have committed to do the show. Staff is spending booth fees for advertising, vendors, amenities etc. Staff is spending time on the myriad of details it takes to put on a successful show.
If you throw into this mix artists now pulling out because they will get a full refund if their booth is resold you have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench into the machinery. Now staff is scrambling to find artists to fill the spots, photos must be pulled from advertising and new photos replaced (if there are new photos), redoing list, sometimes site maps, waiting for artists who are on the road to reply to emails and phones calls to see if they want to come off the waitlist etc. The focus of the staff’s time would move away from putting on the show, to dealing with the holes made by artists who changed their minds.
I’m an artist too. And I’ve eaten some booth fees because I couldn’t do a show. But it was not fraud, unjust, or unethical. After a certain date I knew the booth fee was no longer refundable.
From being on both sides of the booth, I hear artists tell real stories of why they must pull out, (illness, injuries, death in families etc) and compassionate shows that make special efforts to refund the money (despite their rules) to these artists. I also hear stories of artists who overbooked, were too tired, got a better offer from a better show, wanted a vacation, etc and told the shows they were ill, injured, their mother died etc…in an effort to get back their booth fee. IE they lie. How is a show to know which is which. And these artists are being unethical and unjust. This knife cuts both ways.
Frankly, as an artist I want a show to hold my fellow vendors to their commitment to do the show. Last year I was at a show where next to some exquisite handmade silk shibori scarves the show filled in with cowboy hats from Australia. They also had a vendor who made diaper bags, and one whose company produced ceramic pots all in fancy printed boxes. The booth next to us was a no show and we were asked repeatedly why no one was there. "I don't know. I'm here to sell you jewelry."
As an artist, I want the show staff working for me, not for artists who decided not to do the show. I don’t want their time diverted by artists who decide, last minute to skip this show and there is no consequence for this because they can get their booth fee back no matter how late they pull out.
hth
I do not see that the home-buying analogy is apt at all. Oranges and apples.
I can see how a "last minute" cancellation causes a hardship for the show; one that will still be a hardship whether the show has a return of fee policy. And I do agree that some artists are not ethical. I too have heard all the stories; all the excuses. But that does not mean that the show should also act in a like unethical manner. Never did buy that argument anywhere.
Nothing changes by a show having a just and ethical fee return policy. More artists will probably apply meaning more jury fees. If an artist cancels, then the artist cancels whether the fee is returned or not; probably fewer no shows which seem to me to be a more real problem for the show. If the show has a just return policy, more artists would be inclined to cancel in a more timely manner. If the show does not have a return policy, then I would think artists would wait until later to cancel "just in case." The shows would benefit once they become humane about this.
It is simple. If a show fills the space canceled for ANY reason at ANY time they cannot collect the fee twice....period.
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