Months ago I wrote to Connie Mettler about the problem of buy/ sell. She said "You can, of course, band together with like-minded exhibitors, and blackball these promoters". She further stated that "perhaps you can gather a bunch of people and you can take collective action". She felt that the problem was difficult but "needs to be addressed". I have aired my concerns and know that everyone does not agree with me. I feel that the Flea Market is the place for buy/ sell, the Green Market is the place for plants and plant products, soaps, oils etc. along with veggies, flowers and food and the Art and Craft Shows should be for items made by hand with manual dexterity, a keen eye and are not mass produced in a factory. In another discussion, unionization was offered as a possibility for artisans to band together. There is a national association for artists but it only has about 500 members so I do not see artists joining this type of organized group. If the national association pledged to address this topic and work to correct problem maybe more artists would join, I don't know. I was so disappointed in the Mount Dora show for the lack of balence and obvious buy/ sell, which violated the contract that they had me sign, that I asked for my money back. I sent them their agreement I had to sign with the violations underlined. Their reply was in essence, that they regret that my experince did not meet my expectations but the contract clearly stated that no money would be refunded. The letter further stated that the signed agreement gave the committee'"the right to make final interpretations of all the rules up to and including the vetting process, as well as, how and when to eject a non-conforming Crafter". They believe that the fair should "create, promote and attract visitors to the event". In these statements, it is obvious that they have not a care or concern for those who apply and exhibit at their event. They said that they try to improve the show quality so that they can continue to "attract fine Crafters such as you", but it appears I was only there to draw others to the area and spend my money in Mount Dora. They graciously said that they would waive the 2010 jury fee if I should decide to come back. This is not the first time I have asked for my money back. The last time I was told that "the contract is flawed". Now, I wonder what we can do , as a group of artists, to create a contract that more favors the artists than the promoters. I do not want quality art and craft shows to disappear. We need the promoters and they need us. The problem appears to be in the contracts that are written with only the promoters in mind and that only we have to sign. How can we turn this arround?
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You said your work is made in America, and yet the customer walks away to a less expensive booth.
The bells are going off in my alleged mind! You see the problem, so solve it. Cost is a factor to your customers. So find a way to either lower the costs of your supplies, or make a less expensive item. Find a better way to produce. Make some work with cheaper pieces. Bring those customers back to your booth! Offer a guarantee. Place a 10% off coupon in the bag for the next time that customer is at a show you're doing. "Present the coupon and get 10% off your total purchase." I have that on my website. And I will redeem coupons at the shows. Can you afford a buck on a $10 item?
I also make sure the customer is enjoying the visit to my booth. I will banter with them. I can't believe how many are still sitting down in the booths! Convey exitement to your customers. Show enthusiasm for what you do. I love what I'm doing and the customer will know it before they leave.
This economy is gonna get a lot worse before it get any better. The unemployment figures will be high for years to come. So we must also deal with that. The people aren't going to have much money for the forseeable future. So maybe lower prices will be in our future too.
We certainly can start with the Mount Dora Arts and Craft Fair because they wrote and said they can do what they want because they determine how to interpret the rules and their job is to bring people into Mount Dora. And Chris, I have signs that say handmade in the USA. People are amazed that I did the work, think it is beautiful but they will still go down the street and buy the less expensive non-handmade item in todays economy.
Juli Adams said:
I agree. Why don't we make a list, right here on this site that calls out the fairs that are run this way? Spread the word.
Chris Hoyt said:
I posted this opinion on another forum but I reiterate here.
This is America. The name of the game in America is competition. We are all independent businesspeople and we have an ongoing problem. Competition from somebody we don't like. (B/S) So what do many of us do? Complain about it. And we're seeing how far that's getting, right? Has complaining stopped the B/S? Absolutely not!
So we see what's not working. So how about this off the wall idea? Compete with it. Drive it out of the shows! But how? We are intelligent, resourseful, imaginative people. If we can design a piece of jewelry, why can't we design and make items that can and will go head to head with the B/S?
I decided to do that a long time ago. Today, B/S doesn't bother me one bit. I can outsell the B/S merchants at many shows.
So here's a suggestion. Make some inexpensive work. Make it with the intention that if B/S is at the show, you take it out and say with fire in your eyes, "It's showtime!" We need to drive the B/S out of our markets. We need to make them uncomfortable! Have a sign in your booth saying your work is made in America! Made by you! What are you afraid of? Insulting the B/S merchants?
Think of this as a mini "Tea Party". We must take back the shows. Nobody else is going to do it for us. If you really want to make waves, have a petition preprinted and ready for signatures. Have it say to the promoter that the undersigned exhibitors will not be returning unless you the promoter adheres to your own contracts. If enough exhibitors sign it, the promoter will see in advance that possibly 1/3 of their income will disappear. That may force them into acting.
So we have a choice. We can complain and get absolutely nowhere, or actually do something about it!
My friends, that decision is up to you. I made my decision a long time ago.
I agree. Why don't we make a list, right here on this site that calls out the fairs that are run this way? Spread the word.
Chris Hoyt said:
I posted this opinion on another forum but I reiterate here.
This is America. The name of the game in America is competition. We are all independent businesspeople and we have an ongoing problem. Competition from somebody we don't like. (B/S) So what do many of us do? Complain about it. And we're seeing how far that's getting, right? Has complaining stopped the B/S? Absolutely not!
So we see what's not working. So how about this off the wall idea? Compete with it. Drive it out of the shows! But how? We are intelligent, resourseful, imaginative people. If we can design a piece of jewelry, why can't we design and make items that can and will go head to head with the B/S?
I decided to do that a long time ago. Today, B/S doesn't bother me one bit. I can outsell the B/S merchants at many shows.
So here's a suggestion. Make some inexpensive work. Make it with the intention that if B/S is at the show, you take it out and say with fire in your eyes, "It's showtime!" We need to drive the B/S out of our markets. We need to make them uncomfortable! Have a sign in your booth saying your work is made in America! Made by you! What are you afraid of? Insulting the B/S merchants?
Think of this as a mini "Tea Party". We must take back the shows. Nobody else is going to do it for us. If you really want to make waves, have a petition preprinted and ready for signatures. Have it say to the promoter that the undersigned exhibitors will not be returning unless you the promoter adheres to your own contracts. If enough exhibitors sign it, the promoter will see in advance that possibly 1/3 of their income will disappear. That may force them into acting.
So we have a choice. We can complain and get absolutely nowhere, or actually do something about it!
My friends, that decision is up to you. I made my decision a long time ago.
Sounds like a contract that's no contract at all! At least as far as the exhibitor is concerned, I take your money, no refunds, and I can change all the rules any time I want. So why bother with a "contract" other than to say no refund. What can we do. Well for one, we should start giving them a the "award of shame", maybe a specific blog space where we can "out" shows that blatantly ignore their own rules or bend them so much that were the contract a human being it would be a contortionist. Perhaps we can start the contest for the show that with the most buy/sell that alleges it is a fine art/craft show. First we have to clearly define what a fine art/craft show is, or what we want it to be. Then we can "out" these shows publicly.
It always amazes me that shows feels the need to do this, feel like that is the only way they can "fill" the show. It's like they can't believe if you set high standands and then maintain them, enforce their own rules that it will actually work. Bad news travels fast, good news travels faster. We all are quick to tell about the show that indeed kicked out an exhibitor for being buy/sell or a rep and applauding the show for doing it.
I think you have this backward, Ron. Zapp and JAS need the shows just like the shows need the artists. ZAPP and JAS have no interest in what the show's rules are, they just want the contracts with the shows to keep earning money and keeping their operations rolling along.
Maybe new shows sign up with Zapp and JAS for access to their mailing lists, but any show that has been around for some time has a pretty good-sized database of artists already and doesn't need the digital folks info.
Part 2 - shows accept the buy/sell (hopefully unknowingly) because they need to fill their spaces. Why they allow them to come back when it has been proven they are b/s is a mystery to me also and clearly a breach of contract.
Ron Mellott said:
Perhaps one possibility is to push ZAPP and JAS to force show promoters to not just state but enforce their rules and if they don't, refuse them access to listing their shows with their organizations. This would have a significant financial impact on the shows themselves by not having access to the huge e-mails lists of artists those shows have and thus likely reducing the number of artists that apply (that jury fee revenue stream!). Seems if they are placing themselves in a liason role of sorts between artists and shows, they want to keep both parties happy.
Also, I continue to be puzzled why shows want to even allow in buy-sell. And when identified, why they don't just jury it out in future years. Seems such a simple (although not purely ethical) option.
Perhaps one possibility is to push ZAPP and JAS to force show promoters to not just state but enforce their rules and if they don't, refuse them access to listing their shows with their organizations. This would have a significant financial impact on the shows themselves by not having access to the huge e-mails lists of artists those shows have and thus likely reducing the number of artists that apply (that jury fee revenue stream!). Seems if they are placing themselves in a liason role of sorts between artists and shows, they want to keep both parties happy.
Also, I continue to be puzzled why shows want to even allow in buy-sell. And when identified, why they don't just jury it out in future years. Seems such a simple (although not purely ethical) option.
You have decided to compete. You know how to be friendly as well as competitive. You decided long ago, as have I, that complaining isn't working. But how many of us are out there?
I agree that many B/S vendors are nicer than some artists/crafters I have encountered. Some artists/crafters think they are the star of the show. And along comes some B/S vendor selling something not even close to the medium the artist has, sells like crazy, and the artist blames the B/S vendor for the lack of sales.
Maybe that show just wasn't their market, that's all. That's happened to all of us at one time or another. But I find it strange how many exhibitors must find someone else to blame for their lack of sales.
When I do a show and everybody is doing well and I'm not, I'm in the wrong show! I don't have what those particular customers want. It's nobody else's fault. I just chose the wrong show.
Chris, we know each other pretty well. I am, and have said this many times to, a firm believer that it is competition and a little competition is good for business. Maybe some people are too comfortable in what they make that when a glitzy new person on the block and sets up shop, there is a fear that comes along with it. What will this do for my business, people think. This year I have had been placed next to re-sell at shows and funny enough, many of these folks and NICER than some artists I have been set next to. I am not necessarily a sympathizer, but you make the best of the situation. For me, every show - no matter what the show is - I am seriously focused on my booth and products. I don't do shows to make friends - however I do, but to sell sell sell. If someone else sells something similar to me I let people know what makes my items desirable and let the customer make the decision. This happened at my last show over the weekend. Another person was selling potpourri that you scoop out of plastic tubs, in another building. Mine are pre-bagged with clever sayings and apothecary jars to smell and see all the ingredients. The biggest comment I got was, you know another person is selling this potpourri stuff, but it doesn't smell as natural as yours - in fact it smelled very unnatural. And they happily bought 3 bags - it was a group of people each buying several bags.
The one thing that I do notice is that most customers are not stupid. They look for made in the USA and refuse to patronize those who sell things that are not made in the USA. There is a huge surge, and it is continuing to surge, to buy locally made items due to this. This is why I think there are more "green" markets - farmers markets is what I call it, and the like. I just think those who do buy/sell are not in the business as long as artists think. I believe artists give re-sellers more credit than necessary.
The last sentence leaves the promoter an "out" if necessary to "sell real estate". That last sentence says that all those rules mean absolutely nothing if they so choose.
And when I see a sentence like that in a contract, I cannot be surprised if there's B/S there.
Look, everybody is hurting today, even the promoters.
Many promoters started out with great intentions. A juried show full of real artists and crafters. But things change over the years, and many promoters get lazy. The jurors don't want to be involved anymore and whoever is left to jury doesn't know what s/he's looking at. But they get loads of applications so they're still making money. And believe it or not, money is why 99% of promoters are doing this. "They're just in it for the money" is a common complaint. Well, aren't we in it for the same reason?
Many promoters use the same contract over and over. I see the same contracts for 10 years and the ONLY thing changed are the dates. Some are still claiming to be in the SA "Top 200" when they haven't been on that list for 15 years!
Now I know nothing about Florida shows. My area is New England. And I work with three promoters who have made a serious effort to keep out the B/S. Of my 40+ show schedule, 21 are with those three promoters. But they too are only human! I don't know anybody who can spot every liar who applies. It's just not humanly possible! I have been at shows where the other exhibitors have gone to the promoter pointing out "B/S" only to find the exhibitor DID make everything in his booth! And I was at a show (Chester, NJ) last June where a B/S exhibitor was escorted out on Saturday afternoon in front of everybody.
But these are not $150 shows. I gave one promoter almost $5,500 in space fees this year alone. I know who's going to be there. We've become friends over the years. We can actually kid with each other. I'm a metalworker and I have a good friend who's a jeweler. He'll come over to my booth and say "Hey Chris! One Wing Lo called and he wants me to tell you he still has a half container leaving Shanghai on Tuesday. Do you need anything else?" And I'll reply "No thanks, you can have it." Try that with a stranger.
Look at every app with a jaundiced eye. Go expecting the worst if it's your first time there. And be pleasaantly surprised if there's no B/S.
But I still ask: Why is everyone afraid to compete? Why is everyone afraid to drive the junk out? I see nobody here saying it's time to show them we are resourceful, intelligent, creative people.
Am I the only one who is willing to compete head to head? If I am, this industry is doomed. We might as well go out and get a "real" job!
Chris -
But it says "...produced solely by him or her..." . I take that to mean handcrafted, produced by the artist applying - not buy/sell. If they don't mean that why put it in there. They could easily leave that out and have anything they want in the show without creating complaints. I have been in shows that leave that statement out and if there is buy/sell I don't complain - but when that is in there I expect it to be artisan created.
Replies
You said your work is made in America, and yet the customer walks away to a less expensive booth.
The bells are going off in my alleged mind! You see the problem, so solve it. Cost is a factor to your customers. So find a way to either lower the costs of your supplies, or make a less expensive item. Find a better way to produce. Make some work with cheaper pieces. Bring those customers back to your booth! Offer a guarantee. Place a 10% off coupon in the bag for the next time that customer is at a show you're doing. "Present the coupon and get 10% off your total purchase." I have that on my website. And I will redeem coupons at the shows. Can you afford a buck on a $10 item?
I also make sure the customer is enjoying the visit to my booth. I will banter with them. I can't believe how many are still sitting down in the booths! Convey exitement to your customers. Show enthusiasm for what you do. I love what I'm doing and the customer will know it before they leave.
This economy is gonna get a lot worse before it get any better. The unemployment figures will be high for years to come. So we must also deal with that. The people aren't going to have much money for the forseeable future. So maybe lower prices will be in our future too.
Juli Adams said:
Chris Hoyt said:
It always amazes me that shows feels the need to do this, feel like that is the only way they can "fill" the show. It's like they can't believe if you set high standands and then maintain them, enforce their own rules that it will actually work. Bad news travels fast, good news travels faster. We all are quick to tell about the show that indeed kicked out an exhibitor for being buy/sell or a rep and applauding the show for doing it.
martha
Maybe new shows sign up with Zapp and JAS for access to their mailing lists, but any show that has been around for some time has a pretty good-sized database of artists already and doesn't need the digital folks info.
Part 2 - shows accept the buy/sell (hopefully unknowingly) because they need to fill their spaces. Why they allow them to come back when it has been proven they are b/s is a mystery to me also and clearly a breach of contract.
Ron Mellott said:
Also, I continue to be puzzled why shows want to even allow in buy-sell. And when identified, why they don't just jury it out in future years. Seems such a simple (although not purely ethical) option.
You have decided to compete. You know how to be friendly as well as competitive. You decided long ago, as have I, that complaining isn't working. But how many of us are out there?
I agree that many B/S vendors are nicer than some artists/crafters I have encountered. Some artists/crafters think they are the star of the show. And along comes some B/S vendor selling something not even close to the medium the artist has, sells like crazy, and the artist blames the B/S vendor for the lack of sales.
Maybe that show just wasn't their market, that's all. That's happened to all of us at one time or another. But I find it strange how many exhibitors must find someone else to blame for their lack of sales.
When I do a show and everybody is doing well and I'm not, I'm in the wrong show! I don't have what those particular customers want. It's nobody else's fault. I just chose the wrong show.
The one thing that I do notice is that most customers are not stupid. They look for made in the USA and refuse to patronize those who sell things that are not made in the USA. There is a huge surge, and it is continuing to surge, to buy locally made items due to this. This is why I think there are more "green" markets - farmers markets is what I call it, and the like. I just think those who do buy/sell are not in the business as long as artists think. I believe artists give re-sellers more credit than necessary.
Michelle
The last sentence leaves the promoter an "out" if necessary to "sell real estate". That last sentence says that all those rules mean absolutely nothing if they so choose.
And when I see a sentence like that in a contract, I cannot be surprised if there's B/S there.
Look, everybody is hurting today, even the promoters.
Many promoters started out with great intentions. A juried show full of real artists and crafters. But things change over the years, and many promoters get lazy. The jurors don't want to be involved anymore and whoever is left to jury doesn't know what s/he's looking at. But they get loads of applications so they're still making money. And believe it or not, money is why 99% of promoters are doing this. "They're just in it for the money" is a common complaint. Well, aren't we in it for the same reason?
Many promoters use the same contract over and over. I see the same contracts for 10 years and the ONLY thing changed are the dates. Some are still claiming to be in the SA "Top 200" when they haven't been on that list for 15 years!
Now I know nothing about Florida shows. My area is New England. And I work with three promoters who have made a serious effort to keep out the B/S. Of my 40+ show schedule, 21 are with those three promoters. But they too are only human! I don't know anybody who can spot every liar who applies. It's just not humanly possible! I have been at shows where the other exhibitors have gone to the promoter pointing out "B/S" only to find the exhibitor DID make everything in his booth! And I was at a show (Chester, NJ) last June where a B/S exhibitor was escorted out on Saturday afternoon in front of everybody.
But these are not $150 shows. I gave one promoter almost $5,500 in space fees this year alone. I know who's going to be there. We've become friends over the years. We can actually kid with each other. I'm a metalworker and I have a good friend who's a jeweler. He'll come over to my booth and say "Hey Chris! One Wing Lo called and he wants me to tell you he still has a half container leaving Shanghai on Tuesday. Do you need anything else?" And I'll reply "No thanks, you can have it." Try that with a stranger.
Look at every app with a jaundiced eye. Go expecting the worst if it's your first time there. And be pleasaantly surprised if there's no B/S.
But I still ask: Why is everyone afraid to compete? Why is everyone afraid to drive the junk out? I see nobody here saying it's time to show them we are resourceful, intelligent, creative people.
Am I the only one who is willing to compete head to head? If I am, this industry is doomed. We might as well go out and get a "real" job!
But it says "...produced solely by him or her..." . I take that to mean handcrafted, produced by the artist applying - not buy/sell. If they don't mean that why put it in there. They could easily leave that out and have anything they want in the show without creating complaints. I have been in shows that leave that statement out and if there is buy/sell I don't complain - but when that is in there I expect it to be artisan created.
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