Hello all! I am a "fine crafter" I'd guess you'd say. My sister, myself, and my niece and her spouse make up Fontastik4, alphabet photography. We are in the Chicago suburbs, northwest Illinois area, have been doing shows, mainly indoor fall and spring, for 2.5 years. My sister, niece and I take our photos and Rob does the frame assembly and building as well as a lot of our set up and tear down. We have been experimenting with different display techniques so am interested in hearing what everyone on here has to say about displays and supplies We enjoy meeting other artists/crafters....a very interesting community, and have been fortunate to get lots of tips from a variety of people. I have an ethics type of question for discussion...........as artists, we all try to be unique, but are aware that there is always going to be competition We have someone in our area that does the same type of product.....but have managed to co-exist without doing the same shows or running into eachother....we know there is a large market out there and plenty of venues. We have run into a number of vendors that have done shows with this person, and we have been told that she does nothing but put us down. We are tough skinned and that doesn't bother us much...and we do not reciprocate! Where our ethics problems comes into play, is that although this person represents herself as "taking all of her own photos" we have seen her work on Facebook.....and have traced a large percentage of her photos to Flickr....she has cropped them but it is easy to tell that they are one and the same. Do we say anything to her? To the show organizers? To the Flickr photographers? or do we ignore? How would you handle this?
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I would alert the photographers that are having their photos stolen off of Flickr...that can be a serrious offence if the images are labled ARR.
A bit off topic, but I do hear other artists complain from time to time about "too many other (instert type of artist/media here) in this show that do the same type of work, so I can't make any sales!" I don't see it that way at all...if your work is good enough, you should be able to make sales no matter how many other painters/photographers/ect there are at the show. The more great art at a show, the better the show will be overall, and the more people it should attract. Even if there are 500 painters, they all will have their own style, and customers should see that.
I do have to add that I am a photographer, and I have met thousands of other photographers in my life...NONE of them do the same type of work as me, so I may feel the way I do because I am always the only photographer doing what I do.
To furter clarify, I do aerial photography using kites to lift my cameras. So all of my photographs are taken from vantage points that are nearly impossible to get to any other way (lower than an aircraft, higher than a pole or ladder).
Lori Hopkins > Evan ReinheimerSeptember 28, 2010 at 12:34am
Evan.......I have been meaning to reply to your comment....checked out your website and i love your work...what a cool idea....looks like a lot of fun too. The pictures are beautiful and have such a different perspective. Great work!!!
I'm guessing that most of you who have responded to this thread (other than Larry Berman, who've I known for decades) are relatively new to the art show biz. In my opinion - and I've done this - I would gather the proof that a photographer at a show you're in is ripping off images from Flickr and show it to the promoters/directors of the show. If you don't step up and get these people eliminated, no one else will!
It's not bad karma, it's promoting honesty and ethics in our business.
Lori Hopkins > MICHAEL ALAN STIPEKApril 6, 2011 at 12:51am
Thanks for the response Michael......we have gathered a packet of proof and have actually forwarded it to the other artist to give her a chance to "come clean". I also contacted several of the photographers on Flickr and let them know what was going on. Several of them contacted her directly and requested she remove their photos from her collection. From what we can gather, she has removed most of them from her web page, not sure if she is still selling them at her shows.
Thank you for having done this; it's a good way to clear out those who harm the rest of us who are trying to just do good work!
Tina Cloud > Evan ReinheimerSeptember 19, 2010 at 2:00pm
Evan,
I checked out your website - great pics! What an great way to travel, inventive method of photography, & you get to have fun flying a kite. Good for you!
James Dargocey > Tina CloudSeptember 26, 2010 at 10:00am
Great work! I to have seen this at some local shows, and thought to myself "why didnt I think of that?" So I guess there are a lot of people doing this now, but the booths Ive seen have always been real busy.
Now back to your question, I am not the type of person to keep my mouth shut and would most likely confront the person, at least that would be my first reaction.
I had a guy tell me, hey "I have the shot" at the tattoo convention I did, I said "oh did you see me at another show" he said "no I downloaded it from flickr" Needless to say when his friend saw the way I looked at him, He got him out of my booth real fast. I was speechless, I was angry, but Its my own fault that I didnt protect the images better.
Another guy at the same show was trying to take a photo of one of my photos with his phone, my wife stopped him and he said I just want it as a screensaver for my phone, I told him spend 25 bucks on a print and you can do whatever you want with it.
Lori Hopkins > James DargoceySeptember 28, 2010 at 12:32am
Thanks James.......we have a lot of fun doing it, and there does seem to be a steady market for it....even with the increased competition. The jury is still out on what we plan to do with this info....we tend to have a hard time keeping things in also so.......time will tell. It's just difficult because we are proud to tell people that we take all of our photos and then you see others that have no respect for themselves and sell everyone else's work, and pass it off as their own.........will keep you all posted though.
Michael Reimer > James DargoceySeptember 27, 2010 at 8:01am
Actually, he can't ...'do whatever you want with it'. You still have the copyright, so, for example, he can't scan it, make 100 copies and sell them.
I think I would just take the high road and ignore them. Cheating (which is what they are doing) has a way of betraying itself. Sooner or later someone will think something is remiss and they will get the treatment coming, but since you are a competitor, I think it would be seen as sour grapes or legitimizing their criticisms.
Replies
A bit off topic, but I do hear other artists complain from time to time about "too many other (instert type of artist/media here) in this show that do the same type of work, so I can't make any sales!" I don't see it that way at all...if your work is good enough, you should be able to make sales no matter how many other painters/photographers/ect there are at the show. The more great art at a show, the better the show will be overall, and the more people it should attract. Even if there are 500 painters, they all will have their own style, and customers should see that.
I do have to add that I am a photographer, and I have met thousands of other photographers in my life...NONE of them do the same type of work as me, so I may feel the way I do because I am always the only photographer doing what I do.
To furter clarify, I do aerial photography using kites to lift my cameras. So all of my photographs are taken from vantage points that are nearly impossible to get to any other way (lower than an aircraft, higher than a pole or ladder).
-Evan
EvanReinheimer.com
I'm guessing that most of you who have responded to this thread (other than Larry Berman, who've I known for decades) are relatively new to the art show biz. In my opinion - and I've done this - I would gather the proof that a photographer at a show you're in is ripping off images from Flickr and show it to the promoters/directors of the show. If you don't step up and get these people eliminated, no one else will!
It's not bad karma, it's promoting honesty and ethics in our business.
Thanks for the response Michael......we have gathered a packet of proof and have actually forwarded it to the other artist to give her a chance to "come clean". I also contacted several of the photographers on Flickr and let them know what was going on. Several of them contacted her directly and requested she remove their photos from her collection. From what we can gather, she has removed most of them from her web page, not sure if she is still selling them at her shows.
Thank you for having done this; it's a good way to clear out those who harm the rest of us who are trying to just do good work!
I checked out your website - great pics! What an great way to travel, inventive method of photography, & you get to have fun flying a kite. Good for you!
Now back to your question, I am not the type of person to keep my mouth shut and would most likely confront the person, at least that would be my first reaction.
I had a guy tell me, hey "I have the shot" at the tattoo convention I did, I said "oh did you see me at another show" he said "no I downloaded it from flickr" Needless to say when his friend saw the way I looked at him, He got him out of my booth real fast. I was speechless, I was angry, but Its my own fault that I didnt protect the images better.
Another guy at the same show was trying to take a photo of one of my photos with his phone, my wife stopped him and he said I just want it as a screensaver for my phone, I told him spend 25 bucks on a print and you can do whatever you want with it.
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