I've been assigned what appears to be not so good location at the Edina Show, near the Post Office. Has anyone been located there in the past? Seems that it would be a not so well traveled path. Thanks!
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Congratulations Linda! You did a great job handling this, one that should, and I mean this sincerely, set a standard for others to follow. Glad the Executive Director chimed in. Though now it will be all the more interesting to see what changes they do make next year ... hopefully, not lop off one dead spot and move those booth to a new, untested, other dead spot! My optimism reigns!
I'm happy to report we can put this puppy to rest. I thought the drama would never end and I'm extremely surprised I had a response from the Executive Director who ran the show. Thanks to all of you for your empathy and support. Ron/Connie - you are so very right to encourage others to convey problems to the promoters. Change takes place one step at a time. Golly - do you think I just made a new friend? Just wanted to share her correspondence with those interested:
Hi Linda,
I am sorry this was your experience at the Edina Art Fair. Our intention is to create a great event. The US Bank Lot needs to be reexamined for the coming years. We made some changes this year and it did affect the lot and the traffic it received. Again, these issues will be addressed. I thank you for your openness to try the event and the comments on how the event went for you.
Take care.
All my best,
Rachel
Thank you Ron. I'm a fairly decent communicator and have typically end up being friends of most promoters or event coordinators. It must be said here that artists who approach promoters should always do so in a friendly manner and when problems arise, always offer solutions. They are just people too, working hard to produce the event successfully. I've seen many artists approach problems with anger - thus turning off the promoter to any artist suggestions. There are some however that just don't get it or don't have the ability to actually hear the problem. As with the Edina show, I communicated before and during the event in a respectful manner offering possible solutions. I learned in my "other life" (engineering) the phrase "Publish or Perish". By documentation and use of the video, I could then effectively visually show the producer and the interested parties that are behind the event, problem areas that they need to correct. I certainly hope they will indeed address these issues as the Edina show has awesome possibilities. You are so very right about the need for artists to temporarily develop a partnership with the promoter - win/win for both. It is only with effective communication by all that a better show will evolve. To have a bad experience then just walk away and not share that experience with the promoter is a loss for everyone. Anyway, thanks for your kind words. We'll have to meet in person one of these days. Always fun for this old dog to learn new stuff.
Ron Mellott said:
Michael:
I think there are many that would share your view just to not do a show again if the same problem keeps happening: just not go. That is certainly one way to approach it.
However, for many of us that do this full-time for our living, we would have to start lopping off shows left and right and have fewer options each year, and that is not a particularly viable option. Because I am not convinced most promoters do otherwise, other promoters monitor what goes on to where they can honestly say "there is no difference". I'd sure be interested to know what shows you might be referring to.
Also, if we don't tell promoters what they are doing wrong, do we not give them the grounds to say "well, you're the first person that has said that!" ... or .... "no one else has mentioned any problem with that". And know what? At that point they might be right if artists have only complained to their neighbors or other artists but not made their views known to the promoters. Agreed nicely stated (aka: sugar-coated) is good as long as the message is clear and unambiguous and most importantly, delivered to those that are entrusted to make decisions.
Myself, I believe promoters should not become a blockage between artists and the public. Rather, they should be facilitators, which makes them look good, makes them money, and all parties happier. Fair and equitable treatment should be the norm, not the exception. For example, I do Uptown and it is a great show for me. Same even with Powderhorn. Why should I write off Edina because of a promoter that is not doing the best job of managing essential decisions about their event? Should the decision for any of us to walk away from a show not be a decision we make based on the pubic seeing our work and subsequently our not selling our work well, given an equal opportunity to sell? Not because a promoter stuck us in a crappy location, off the beaten path, only a fraction of the traffic flow other artists received, merely because they wanted to make a bit more money off of full-priced booths? I say: "nay, nay". The art patrons of Edina, and each of us, deserve better.
What Linda did .... Linda! .... you're good! I applaud and highly recommend other artists to take that approach in it's entirety. If any artist is concerned about their name being on the correspondence, do it anonymously. But do it. If the attempt to take an issue to the promoter and their staff is not given serious consideration or is completely blown off, do as did Linda and take it around, over, past that blockage and let those she is beholding to know what is wrong, what was said, what was attempted, what failed, and why. Let them see the problem and try to engage them in the discussion. I truly do look forward to seeing what reply Linda receives for her excellent efforts.
I would also add that if those spots were considered "equal", then push the promoter to do, as someone else suggested in a posting here, a form of lottery system to assign booth locations. At worst, your fate will be determined by that system. At best, those who have done the show for a long time and have what we perceive to be "good locations" may quickly find themselves going to the promoter supporting your argument to now make all locations more equitable. I find it surprising how some artists' view will change their opinions and voice concerns if they are put into other people's "shoes", in this case, put into spots they also know have bad traffic flow, irregardless of what the promoter says, and\ fear their sales will drop accordingly.
I think there are many that would share your view just to not do a show again if the same problem keeps happening: just not go. That is certainly one way to approach it.
However, for many of us that do this full-time for our living, we would have to start lopping off shows left and right and have fewer options each year, and that is not a particularly viable option. Because I am not convinced most promoters do otherwise, other promoters monitor what goes on to where they can honestly say "there is no difference". I'd sure be interested to know what shows you might be referring to.
Also, if we don't tell promoters what they are doing wrong, do we not give them the grounds to say "well, you're the first person that has said that!" ... or .... "no one else has mentioned any problem with that". And know what? At that point they might be right if artists have only complained to their neighbors or other artists but not made their views known to the promoters. Agreed nicely stated (aka: sugar-coated) is good as long as the message is clear and unambiguous and most importantly, delivered to those that are entrusted to make decisions.
Myself, I believe promoters should not become a blockage between artists and the public. Rather, they should be facilitators, which makes them look good, makes them money, and all parties happier. Fair and equitable treatment should be the norm, not the exception. For example, I do Uptown and it is a great show for me. Same even with Powderhorn. Why should I write off Edina because of a promoter that is not doing the best job of managing essential decisions about their event? Should the decision for any of us to walk away from a show not be a decision we make based on the pubic seeing our work and subsequently our not selling our work well, given an equal opportunity to sell? Not because a promoter stuck us in a crappy location, off the beaten path, only a fraction of the traffic flow other artists received, merely because they wanted to make a bit more money off of full-priced booths? I say: "nay, nay". The art patrons of Edina, and each of us, deserve better.
What Linda did .... Linda! .... you're good! I applaud and highly recommend other artists to take that approach in it's entirety. If any artist is concerned about their name being on the correspondence, do it anonymously. But do it. If the attempt to take an issue to the promoter and their staff is not given serious consideration or is completely blown off, do as did Linda and take it around, over, past that blockage and let those she is beholding to know what is wrong, what was said, what was attempted, what failed, and why. Let them see the problem and try to engage them in the discussion. I truly do look forward to seeing what reply Linda receives for her excellent efforts.
I would also add that if those spots were considered "equal", then push the promoter to do, as someone else suggested in a posting here, a form of lottery system to assign booth locations. At worst, your fate will be determined by that system. At best, those who have done the show for a long time and have what we perceive to be "good locations" may quickly find themselves going to the promoter supporting your argument to now make all locations more equitable. I find it surprising how some artists' view will change their opinions and voice concerns if they are put into other people's "shoes", in this case, put into spots they also know have bad traffic flow, irregardless of what the promoter says, and\ fear their sales will drop accordingly.
One thing we artists must keep in mind: if a show repeatedly puts you or your friends in a low- or no-traffic area, just don't do the show again! The vast majority of festivals we do all try and make the traffic flow as economically beneficial to all of its artists. There are some shows that just keep the same traffic layout regardless of complaints/suggestions/requests - and these shows will always say something to the effect, "but so many of the artists like those out-of-the-way locations!" And to have to do a show at a financial loss for years just to - hopefully - get a better spot, is simply a poor business model.
But do write/email/call a show if you have a serious question about your location - and a honeyed query does work wonders at times!
Work your network! Talk to your artist neighbors at shows! Share your info and experiences about other shows!
Interesting info for you Connie/Ron
I sent an email to the director of the show, the woman I had corresponded with from the start. It was a shorter version of my report listed here. I then sent a copy of that email to the President of the 50th & France Association as well as to the President of the Art Guild associated with the show (including all correspondence between myself and the director of the show which began early May). Stating what I did and including the videos, they will clearly get the whole picture including what other artist's impressions of this show is. My experience in "the real world", when I was an engineer in a very high position, tells me meetings were held due to my report. I also had heard (not documented) that after last year's hail storm there were some unsuccessful lawsuits filed on behalf of a few artists. Verbal conversations I've had (again, nothing documented) indicated that the 50th & France organization now retains a team of lawyers since last year's problems. I'm fairly sure, given the documentation I had gathered, that the lack of response by the receipents of my emails are due to the fears of a lawsuit - which I (and any other artist) could probably win, but do not wish to pursue as I have better things to do with my life. It will be interesting to see if there are any changes incorporated into next year's show. My guess is there will be.
Ron Mellott said:
I'm not sure "not thought of this as a bad area" is a viable response from any promoter, Connie. Really, as a promoter, do you? Don't you think a promoter has a responsibility to ensure their layout has as equitable a traffic flow as possible? For the same booth price, the distances traveled, the expectations of the artists, and the consequences of having lower traffic flow ...... all seem far, far too critical. If people truly like being put back there and like being there, why not just put them back there? If a promoter checks past years and sees large numbers of artists in that area, that are juried back in, request different places, is that not an indication too? If a promoter does not pay attention to a factor as critical as traffic flow throughout their show layout, they are ... not paying attention and not being good promoters in that regard. And artists pay the price for that lack of attention. No, sorry, that just doesn't seem acceptable.
I'm not sure "not thought of this as a bad area" is a viable response from any promoter, Connie. Really, as a promoter, do you? Don't you think a promoter has a responsibility to ensure their layout has as equitable a traffic flow as possible? For the same booth price, the distances traveled, the expectations of the artists, and the consequences of having lower traffic flow ...... all seem far, far too critical. If people truly like being put back there and like being there, why not just put them back there? If a promoter checks past years and sees large numbers of artists in that area, that are juried back in, request different places, is that not an indication too? If a promoter does not pay attention to a factor as critical as traffic flow throughout their show layout, they are ... not paying attention and not being good promoters in that regard. And artists pay the price for that lack of attention. No, sorry, that just doesn't seem acceptable.
and...making friends with the organizers is never a bad move. It is especially good if you can come off as so professional. It is possible she never thought of this as a bad area. Who knows?
Thanks for your encouragement Ron. I could sense from the reply from the promoter that she took my email quite defensively so I followed it up the following day to soften it up a bit - the old more flys with honey theory. My comments to her are following - I did not want her to look at the issue as just another complaining artist, but rather a future consideration. It's my hopes that the approach I took with her this year will perhaps be on her mind when planning the following year's show. Her response to the following was that of relief and discussed in detail how hard she works to make it successful for artists and patrons etc. I may have made a friend :-)
Great to hear this is a popular area for artists & that it's been part of the event for 19 years. I'm always cup half full person and was eager to hear that positive result from you. And thanks again - I did not mean to present my comments as a complaint. Just searching for information that you successfully helped me with.
Glad to see you are listening to these post. But really do wish you would get involved with talking with your fellow promoters, in this case the Edina promoter and others as they come up in such posts. And yes, turn her on to such posting as this so she can read how artists feel about some of their layout areas. Your voice assuredly carries more weight with another promoter than any single artist or small group of artists. Far easier to brush us off as disgruntled artists. Harder to brush off you, a fellow promoter. Yes, we artists need to be more vocal in writing, barraging promoters with feedback (Nel's Johnson's "howling") on what they are doing right .... and especially what they are doing wrong. Both. But we need the tangible help and support of you and other promoters to enact meaningful changes with shows that are off course. Don't you think?
Replies
Nice work!
Hi Linda,
I am sorry this was your experience at the Edina Art Fair. Our intention is to create a great event. The US Bank Lot needs to be reexamined for the coming years. We made some changes this year and it did affect the lot and the traffic it received. Again, these issues will be addressed. I thank you for your openness to try the event and the comments on how the event went for you.
Take care.
All my best,
Rachel
Ron Mellott said:
I think there are many that would share your view just to not do a show again if the same problem keeps happening: just not go. That is certainly one way to approach it.
However, for many of us that do this full-time for our living, we would have to start lopping off shows left and right and have fewer options each year, and that is not a particularly viable option. Because I am not convinced most promoters do otherwise, other promoters monitor what goes on to where they can honestly say "there is no difference". I'd sure be interested to know what shows you might be referring to.
Also, if we don't tell promoters what they are doing wrong, do we not give them the grounds to say "well, you're the first person that has said that!" ... or .... "no one else has mentioned any problem with that". And know what? At that point they might be right if artists have only complained to their neighbors or other artists but not made their views known to the promoters. Agreed nicely stated (aka: sugar-coated) is good as long as the message is clear and unambiguous and most importantly, delivered to those that are entrusted to make decisions.
Myself, I believe promoters should not become a blockage between artists and the public. Rather, they should be facilitators, which makes them look good, makes them money, and all parties happier. Fair and equitable treatment should be the norm, not the exception. For example, I do Uptown and it is a great show for me. Same even with Powderhorn. Why should I write off Edina because of a promoter that is not doing the best job of managing essential decisions about their event? Should the decision for any of us to walk away from a show not be a decision we make based on the pubic seeing our work and subsequently our not selling our work well, given an equal opportunity to sell? Not because a promoter stuck us in a crappy location, off the beaten path, only a fraction of the traffic flow other artists received, merely because they wanted to make a bit more money off of full-priced booths? I say: "nay, nay". The art patrons of Edina, and each of us, deserve better.
What Linda did .... Linda! .... you're good! I applaud and highly recommend other artists to take that approach in it's entirety. If any artist is concerned about their name being on the correspondence, do it anonymously. But do it. If the attempt to take an issue to the promoter and their staff is not given serious consideration or is completely blown off, do as did Linda and take it around, over, past that blockage and let those she is beholding to know what is wrong, what was said, what was attempted, what failed, and why. Let them see the problem and try to engage them in the discussion. I truly do look forward to seeing what reply Linda receives for her excellent efforts.
I would also add that if those spots were considered "equal", then push the promoter to do, as someone else suggested in a posting here, a form of lottery system to assign booth locations. At worst, your fate will be determined by that system. At best, those who have done the show for a long time and have what we perceive to be "good locations" may quickly find themselves going to the promoter supporting your argument to now make all locations more equitable. I find it surprising how some artists' view will change their opinions and voice concerns if they are put into other people's "shoes", in this case, put into spots they also know have bad traffic flow, irregardless of what the promoter says, and\ fear their sales will drop accordingly.
One thing we artists must keep in mind: if a show repeatedly puts you or your friends in a low- or no-traffic area, just don't do the show again! The vast majority of festivals we do all try and make the traffic flow as economically beneficial to all of its artists. There are some shows that just keep the same traffic layout regardless of complaints/suggestions/requests - and these shows will always say something to the effect, "but so many of the artists like those out-of-the-way locations!" And to have to do a show at a financial loss for years just to - hopefully - get a better spot, is simply a poor business model.
But do write/email/call a show if you have a serious question about your location - and a honeyed query does work wonders at times!
Work your network! Talk to your artist neighbors at shows! Share your info and experiences about other shows!
I sent an email to the director of the show, the woman I had corresponded with from the start. It was a shorter version of my report listed here. I then sent a copy of that email to the President of the 50th & France Association as well as to the President of the Art Guild associated with the show (including all correspondence between myself and the director of the show which began early May). Stating what I did and including the videos, they will clearly get the whole picture including what other artist's impressions of this show is. My experience in "the real world", when I was an engineer in a very high position, tells me meetings were held due to my report. I also had heard (not documented) that after last year's hail storm there were some unsuccessful lawsuits filed on behalf of a few artists. Verbal conversations I've had (again, nothing documented) indicated that the 50th & France organization now retains a team of lawyers since last year's problems. I'm fairly sure, given the documentation I had gathered, that the lack of response by the receipents of my emails are due to the fears of a lawsuit - which I (and any other artist) could probably win, but do not wish to pursue as I have better things to do with my life. It will be interesting to see if there are any changes incorporated into next year's show. My guess is there will be.
Ron Mellott said:
Anyone else care to jump in?
Great to hear this is a popular area for artists & that it's been part of the event for 19 years. I'm always cup half full person and was eager to hear that positive result from you. And thanks again - I did not mean to present my comments as a complaint. Just searching for information that you successfully helped me with.
Glad to see you are listening to these post. But really do wish you would get involved with talking with your fellow promoters, in this case the Edina promoter and others as they come up in such posts. And yes, turn her on to such posting as this so she can read how artists feel about some of their layout areas. Your voice assuredly carries more weight with another promoter than any single artist or small group of artists. Far easier to brush us off as disgruntled artists. Harder to brush off you, a fellow promoter. Yes, we artists need to be more vocal in writing, barraging promoters with feedback (Nel's Johnson's "howling") on what they are doing right .... and especially what they are doing wrong. Both. But we need the tangible help and support of you and other promoters to enact meaningful changes with shows that are off course. Don't you think?
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